GREED: Is what I am doing wrong? am I wrong? Biblically

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by zrs6v4, Mar 30, 2008.

  1. zrs6v4

    zrs6v4
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    I am 22 and am a faithful follower to Jesus Christ. I am having a small issue that has been pestering me for a few weeks. I give all and surround my ife around Jesus and He has brought me through and taught me a thousand times what I knew my whole life in the span of 5 months. I really have some amazing stories of His work in my life to His wants which are now mine, how He has given and taught me lessons to better me and continues to do so and will my whole life. Anyway I have 3 quick stories from the last week, to set up my concerns, that are altogether new feelings I havent really been aware of until this point. I am trying to do the right thing for Him and His cause so I may learn.

    1st- I had a great job offer last week, it paid $2.50 more an hour, has benefits which I do not have currently, and paid up to 9 hours of college. I immediatly said yes to the offer and told all all my close friends and relatives, but really didnt pray about it b/c it just had to be God. Well I started to pray about it and ask Him if it was the right job and all that good stuff. Well I prayed a few times and hadn't gotten any imput from Him. Well I still assumed after a few days I wanted the job without question. So my step mom who works at this place said that I needed to fill the application out online, but we simply could not find it online so I told her to forget it and to just pick me one up at work. So the next day I went to work and while at work I started to think about it randomly and it seemed as if God gave me an answer and it was "NO". I couldnt believe it. His answer seemed certain, deeper imbedded than any of my problems, feelings, confusions, concerns, etc... It was not a voice but it was "NO", and I don't know how to explain the answer I just knew. Well for about an hour after that I was arguing with it and thinking to myself is this the devil confusing me, is it me confusing myself, or what the heck is going on here? Deep down inside I felt it was God and knew I just couldn't stand the answer and simply couldnt understand why that was the answer. Well after about an hour of bickering to God and telling Him how I felt I made the decision to let the job go because I felt it was what God was instructing me to do because it was not time to make a change jobs as much as I was sick of and disliked the job I have now and for the past 5 years. Well 2 hours later I was at peace and determined it was Him and I trusted it and was happy I made the decision and felt good about it. I turned on a local Christian station for the first time of the day to hear R.C. Sprole preaching, that very second, he was preaching on how God sometimes gives NO as an answer and that we learn the most at these times of obedience. He also went on explaining how we feel like Gods presents is not there when we get these kind of answers. That was exactly what I felt and was going through 2 hours previous in the day... What do you think?

    2nd story-I also had something similar happen a week prior to this. I am taking one class at a local college and its a class that has nothing to do with what I feel God is leading me towards. I picked it immaturely. I am transfering schools next semester to start a degree in theology. Well I felt God wanted me to go to this school the start of the current semester and I ended up staying at the school I have been in for 4 years with literally no progress 4 majors switches later which is business. Well the class I ended up taking is one I failed last year and the teacher is tough. The first test I did bad at 64%, I missed a homework assignment worth 25 points due to being on vacation, and was lost for the second and final test b/c we had 3 snow days and the material was not taught due to the fact. I admit my study habits were all Bible and none business, which I cant say is bad but irresponsible. Well I was going to go drop the class and God laid it on my heart that I needed to stick with it pass or fail. This is a tough one because previously (past four years) I had dropped about 9 classes when I knew I was going to fail. This would be the first time I didnt. Well I had a lot going on at the time and didnt want to devote it to studying for no purpose.. I did it for Him anyway and went in and studyed hard to fail the second test which is where I am at presently. By dropping the class I wouldnt get any money back at this point anyway.

    3rd story where I am at now. I have had many hobbies the past three years in my life that take up useful time in my studies and mindset towards God and true importance of life. I know life is enjoyable and we are supposed to enjoy it and I do more than ever now having nothing and gaining everything with God through his Son Jesus. My two hobbies are cars and saltwater fish tanks that I still have but they are hanging on by a fingertip compared to how much of my life they took up before. Cars I currently don't have one I am fixing up and want one, but feel God is telling me that that is just taking away from time with Him and keeping material things in it, which I have stories to back this up to. So at 22 I have had about 14 cars including Hi end cars, and sport bikes. None brought any happiness or satisfaction because they are material. I feel I am past that now with my reliable $1500 car God has blessed me with currently which I actually like. Now on to the other big hobby saltwater fish tanks. I have had about 10 in the past 3 years maybe more becasue none again was the one I wanted after having it awhile. I do still like the ocean and like watching the tanks. Well a month ago I got the only tank I have currently b/c I feel I told myself God was blssing me with one. I got a great deal on it like $600 worth of stuff for $200 from a nice Christian boy going away to college and I also gained some stuff to give to my little brother for his freshwater tank that needed TLC. Well I have had this tank a month and have no money to put into, or I should say have other priorities. Well recently I felt God was telling me and probably 2 weeks now, to get rid of it and I dont need it, its just holding me back. I tolf God well maybe I can sell my brothers freshwater tank and set the saltwater tank up for everyone letting my brother put the money he earns into the bank. I still feel that was not the thing God wants me to do. Now this is hard for me and I pray for the strenght to do His will, but I dont see the harm in having this thing especially when I give it away. When I got the tank it came with saltwater rock called liverock worth a lot of money. I sold the liverock for $120 which I feel was wrong as well. So this means I have only $80 invested in all this stuff which is a great deal. Anyway I think God is saying to me, "even though you want to keep the saltwater tank, sell it." When you sell it don't sell it for $300 what its worth but sell it for $80 which is the remainder of breaking even on the deal and let the hobby go, your riches are in Heaven." Thats what I feel is right and He wants me to do here, but I struggle with it and havent done anything yet other than tell my parents I was thinking about putting it in the living room for everyone and selling the freshwater tank which I already have a guy saying he will give my brother $150 for it.. I want to obey God what do you think? I already can say what I want to do, sell it for $80?

    Please comment on all my stories and give me some advice and imput escpecially those who may have been through similar situations, and those who are spiritually mature.. thanks, Zach

    God Bless
     
  2. Dale-c

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    I will only address your job question:
    Is there anything belically wrong with the job?
    Would you be required to sin in order to take the job?
    If not then you are free to take it.
    I can not tell you one way or the other.
    God has not said one way or the other in His word so you are free do to as you want within the boundries of the Bible which are pretty free with regards to occupation.

    If it pays more, take it.
    Unless you don't want to.
    It is up to you.
    Always remember that if you are not violating scripture, there can be multiple right choices you can make.
    don't be afraid of not pleasing God if you are not violating anything in His word.
     
  3. zrs6v4

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    Yea I have been cleaning cars for 5 years now and I am currently working for a limo company cleaning. the Job I was offered is a janitor at a school district. I honestly want to take it but I am trying to go to God for these decisions as much as I can. There are a few people at work I minister to and share Christ. I dont know of any at my work who are like me, but they all look up to and respect me some how. I have demonstrated honesty and try to let characteristics of Christ in my work field and everything I do be seen. I do believe the closer to and more you seek Christ the more open and opportunities to introduce Him can occur. I do beleive that whatever He has in mind He is going to make the best of the situation. I am convinced that there is a lesson I need to learn at work or something He is trying to show me or something. Look at Noah after the ground was dry and it was safe to come off he did not come off until God said to. I kind of feel this situation is the same, but of course I am not trying to say I have the obedience of Noah. Just trying the best I can. Does that make more sense. It is possible in a month he might say its time to go. Or maybe there is another job He wants me to take. Forget the money, I dont want to make it about the money. Although that seems to be what is tempting. thanks for the help please feel free and be honest on what you beleive.
     
  4. Amy.G

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    I think Dale gave you some good advice.

    God speaks to us through His word and tells us what sin is. It is not sin to take a job that pays more money. The more money we make, the more we can give back to God.

    Use the wisdom God has given you. If you lack wisdom, ask for it and He will not withold it from you.
     
  5. Steven2006

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    I think you answered your own question.

    I also think it is wonderful that you prayed about it and asked God for His guidance. It is not always about the money, even though we are conditioned to feel that way.
     
  6. zrs6v4

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    I agree his advice helped me a lot and I have been thinking about it. It is hard to me to think about money even though yes we need it to servive. I think God's ultimate goal is to make us more like Him and I agree he speaks to us through the bible, through true believers, and the Holy Spirit he has given us. I also think that often, well Lord the more money I make the more I can give. I think yes that is true in some cases but in other cases He doesnt need our money, just our complete obedience in which I ask for constantly, because money will not make me grow, but through obedience. By me growing spiritually I will be able to help others at the same time and help more in the future because I will be sactified and be more like Him (I realize we will never touch that perfection, but we can always be better) The more I grow the more I can give but there is so many ways other than money to serve God through obedience. I feel horrible making it about money. Please don't take me the wrong way I appreciate your help, really. I know its hard to express yourself through writing, but I do appreciate your advice and imput and all of it. I am just stating the thoughts I have had. I do feel we have multiple options in Christ and its not wrong to take nice jobs, but it really seems deeper. I am trying to be open and take notes on this as much as possible. I just want to do the right thing, which I may find out is this job.

    what do you think about the fish tank thing. Do you think it is ok to buy something for less than its worth and sell it for what it is worth? Or is that greed? Its the same thing as buying something for what its worth and selling it for more. Is there anything wrong with wanting the fish tank, It doesnt seem like a godly want, but yet I have people telling me God wants us to have things? I can't accept that yet, because material things arent what God wants us to have and don't bring happiness or satisfaction.
    How about buying a car at a good deal and selling it for more(about what its worth) is that greed? or if I truly loved my neighbor would I sell it to them for what I gave for it to benefit them in sharing a good deal? Please understand I am simply trying to learn and make no mistakes(or make the same mistakes as I did in the past) even though I realize I am human and will mess up.
    thanks again
     
  7. zrs6v4

    zrs6v4
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    Sorry about my spelling errors, I honestly can spell but it doesnt seem that way, hah.
     
  8. guitarpreacher

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    In all three stories it sounds like God has already told you what you need to do. You really don't need advice - just encouragement! So, get with it bro! Obey! Submit!

    Story one - all we can see is what's right in front of our nose. God sees the everything from the beginning to the end, and if he's saying no, then he sees something wrong with the situation that you can't see (and probably won't see till it's too late) or he sees something much better that you can have if you'll be patient and trust his leading.

    Story two - in most things in life, finishing is important. Part of maturity is you keep committments, even when it's hard. In most cases, it would be better to finish poorly than to not finish. God is probably telling you it's time learn this lesson and grow up a little bit. The next lesson is when you make the committment, apply yourself properly so that you finish well instead of finishing poorly.
     
  9. guitarpreacher

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    Hit submit too quick.

    Story three - There's ablsolutely nothing wrong with a hobby and having one doesn't make you greedy. Mine is riding motorcycles. I love it and hope to do it for the rest of my life. However, if God told me to get rid of it, that would change everything. If God is telling you to get rid of the tank, then you don't need advice here, unless someone here wants to buy a fish tank. Get busy being obedient!
     
  10. belvedere

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    I have had times when I thought I heard God's voice, and later found that I actually hadn't, and that He was telling me something different. How do I know it was Him the second time? Because He led me to SCRIPTURE that was relevant to the situation. I have found that for me, when God speaks to me, he usually does it by leading me to a relevant Bible passage.

    That said, I believe that God does speak to some directly (those who have clearer discernment than me!). God deals with each of us differently, based on our individual strengths and weaknesses, but one thing is certain: His voice will NEVER contradict the Bible! If you know that you hear His voice, great, follow through with what He tells you to do. If you're like me and aren't sure, ask Him to lead you to Scripture that will confirm it.
     
  11. zrs6v4

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    thanks a bunch for all the great help and advice, and sorry I was away for some time I had to do my Sunday nap. I am going to just hold off on the fish tank thing and keep praying about it (more advice on greed is appreciated), stand firm on the job thing, and keep on my class as hard as it is and transfer to the Christian school next semester. again thanks for the advice, and prayers from some. I am blessed and have been praying for friends to help me in my journey (which I dont currently have in this world that are close enough to talk to). Maybe this is where God sent me to come to get and give advice. By the way like I said man I have had cars and bikes- 2006 gsx-r 600 and a 2003 zx-6r. My two favorite cars I have had were a 2001 Honda s2000 and a 95' NSX-T. I was on the wrong path in that mix though, but now I am on the right one and not turning back. I am still learning about hobbies though. They seem like something that takes time away from heavenly impact unless maybe you could slap a sticker on the bike and use it for evangelism. I have a hard time looking at others in what they do now b/c I trust few and God (more than myself by 100%). If I have to look at examples I always looks at Noah, Abraham, Jesus, the obedient disciples, David, and other men and women of the past. I know the bible doesn't tell tell every second of there lives, but the important they did it talks about and none seems to be playing around. I always seem to find true happiness and enjoyment in church, study, and helping others now. The more I seem to weed out the non godly acts the better and stronger I seem to get. I dont see Jesus at the dragstrip racing, or out fishing but helping others. He has led me in 5 months to quite drinking, smoking, drugs, lieing, stealing, cheating, adultry (strip clubs), cursing, be careless, neglecting family. He has led me to a new church, sunday school group, 2 bible study classes, to learning to read his word and understand it, to want his wants, taught me to pray, has written probably two books through me on my life situations, stories, miracles. He has opened me up to speak out what He has done for me to all my friends, most family, and many starngers, He has led me to a new college, a new major, wanting to go on mission trips. Taught me true worship to Him 7 days a week. Led me away from the negative heartless music I listened to to loving Hymns and Christian songs from the heart. That is honestly about 10% of what He has led me to. Sorry to ramble on I just love to share what He has done in my life. I probably made the prodigal son look like an angel 7 months ago.. And the thing was I didnt even realize how much damage I was doing but now I can see. This is why I fear God and know how important it is to listen to Him carefully and wholeheartedly
     
  12. nunatak

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    Yes, we serve God through obedience, but if we are going to obey we also need to trust Him.

    (Php 2:13) for the one bringing forth in you both the desire and the effort — for the sake of his good pleasure — is God.

    (Joh 6:29) Jesus replied, "This is the deed God requires — to believe in the one whom he sent."
     
  13. corndogggy

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    So it's ok for other people to own it, just not you???

    And, if somebody is offering you more money than you'd let it go for, why would it be a bad thing to turn him down? He's offering that much because he thinks he's getting a crazy deal... he's happy, you're happy... what's the problem? Is it really more honorable to keep racking up debt from school because you won't accept things like this?
     
  14. zrs6v4

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    corndoggy- that is a good point and also one I have been thinking about, but put my debt issue aside for a second. the bible says love the neighbor as yourself. now if I were going to sell this say to my Mom who is the closest person on earth to me I wouldnt be able to sell it to her for more than I paid knowing I only paid $80 for it. I dont care how much debt I have. I just can't see God working that way you know. the bible says even sinners love sinners so you should love everyone because you know the truth, so this tells me that the way Id treat my mom is the same way I should treat a person I have never met even if I tell the stranger and he is aware I only have $80 invested it just doesn't seem right. I know because I have made this same mistake over and over again and it seems like greed to a certain degree. I thank you guys for all the help and please keep it rolling, I am not trying to turn this in to debate, but simply make the right decisions. I believe that this is a good lesson for many of us seeing that the world/flesh/devil revolves around money and these types of situations. So my prayer is that I may be helped through this and many others can be touched as well in a godly way. It is so hard to put the world aside in issues like these because while they seem like such common sense they should not be overlooked otherwise they repeat. thanks again and lets keep this going, I feel like this is backing Gods point up, does anyone agree?
     
  15. corndogggy

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    Nobody does... while they're racking it up. Keep up that attitude and you will though, trust me.



    Dude, the world is one big used car lot. Do you think a salesperson is sinful just because they sell? No, that's just how the world goes round. We live in a capitalist society, you better start getting used to it. When somebody offers you twice what you've got in something while thinking they're getting a great deal, and you don't want to keep it, then it's just dumb to contemplate the morality of that while you're racking up huge debts that will hurt you and your family in the future.

    With your thinking, nobody could ever sell anything for a profit due to it being sinful.

    I sell utility trailers. That's my side job. I buy them real cheap then resell them real cheap, but with a slight markup. Should I feel bad about this? More importantly, if you had your own trailer, then sold it, should you really feel bad if you were able to get a markup from it??? What's the difference? Why is it ok if somebody who buys and sells for a living does it, but is wrong if an occasional seller does the same thing?
     
    #15 corndogggy, Mar 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 31, 2008
  16. menageriekeeper

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    Well I read this yesterday but only had time to respond today.

    First off the better job. If you are racking up student loan debt, while working a job that is not providing enough for your tuition, this is NOT a good thing. If you are an adult (as in 18 or older) and are working a job that is not supplying your basic needs for food, shelter, clothing and health insurance, that is even worse. Who then is paying for that?

    I have a good idea: Mom and Dad. And they love you and probably don't mind doing BUT, is your care using up resources that would better be saved for their old age? Will this new job stop that from happening?

    See the Bible tells us that a man who won't care for his own family is worse than an infidel. So if our family is taking care of us, when we have a way in front of us to care for ourselves(or them), then we have that obligation.

    You say you want to go on mission trips. That's fine. The ones our church goes on cost about $600. Where ya gonna get the money? Mom and Dad? Are they obligated to finance what God has told you to do? (and they probably would, just because they love you. But they shouldn't have to) Should they finance this when God has placed in your path the means to earn your own way?

    Now, I'm all for asking God's guidance on the issues. I do it all the time. But you need to dig into the scripture and find some guidance on borrowing and supporting yourself (and your family) before you decide that "God" has told you not to take this position.

    Google E-Sword and download it. It has a nice search function that will bring up many scriptures. Be creative in your use of key words and you'll glean more information.

    I've been interupted, I'll be back later.
     
  17. corndogggy

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    I saw a shirt the other day that said "When God pours out his blessings, don't wear a raincoat!"

    I say this because, apparently this guy was praying for a better job, then suddenly he gets an offer for better pay with college tuition reimbursement. Then he was praying about his fish tank, feeling that he needed to sell it, then all of a sudden he gets an offer for it that is twice what he has in it.

    I mean, seriously. Sometimes you need to go with the flow and not try to second guess everything, it will drive you insane. The original post should point this out nicely, this guy is beating himself up over it. Signs are everywhere, you just have to be able to read them.
     
  18. The Archangel

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    Zach,

    I've been where you are. I read a great article by Mark Dever and I posted it on my blog (here)

    I think Dever is right and we can easily confused. Please read the blog and PM me with any questions--I'd be more than happy to converse via e-mail.

    Blessings,

    The Archangel
     
  19. zrs6v4

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    I am sorry I didnt clarify my debt. for one I am not racking it up at all. about 3 months ago the Lord brought my debt to my attention. It was small but I agree in time that with carelessness it accumulates and the devil works through debts to tear people down, yes. I had about $4,000 in debt from a car and a credit card. I sold my last car to pay off $3,000 of it and made $1,000 and made me think a little on what I was doing. so now my debt is only about $1,000. As far as school goes I have $0 debt. the Lord has brought my grandma's wealth into my life to pay my classes. I have told her the truth of my school's past recently and she has my back. Now the job would have been nice to help her pay for it which is great and would have been a good thing to do. No debt is being accumulated anymore in my life. Sorry if I confused anyone there.

    One thing I have learned from God is to again not look at the world or anyone else for examples other than Christian guidence, Him, and His word, which explains why I am here. The world is the wide way that many will enter. The world means the same thing as flesh and devil rules both. Those who live in the world or of the flesh arent from God. Yes we live in the world, but have no part of it even if everyone is doing it doesnt mean it's ok. I have made a ton of money buying and selling stuff in the past, but I cant figure out the difference between buying something cheap and selling it for more but still cheap and the difference between buying for the right price and selling for a high price. Its. the micro and macro economy trains to find what personally benefits "yourself" the best and this seems why people keep getting richer and the poor and middle class keep getting more poor. It all seems to be like greed to me and its hard for me to bite because that was my life, but is not my new life to love Christ and love others. I am not going to look or judge and tell you that you are wrong because you may or may not be. We all know deep inside if we are wrong and none of us have to tell each other that. its between you and God. I am looking for something that makes sense in this subject but nothing seems to at this point. I really am trying to stay in the middle here and not lean either way yet obviously otherwise I would have already gone out and made my choice. The fact is one of us is wrong or maybe we are both right to a certain degree but the bible speaks on right and wrongs but not degrees to my knowledge? You have a great point and I am really thinking about it. Please don't get me wrong or think I am trying to convince you either way, but simply just talking out what I am going through.
     
  20. zrs6v4

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    Hey I just want to thank you for your time. I think you are right, you got me thinking. I think my answer is that greed would be this- I paid $100 for the fish tank and it is worth $300, but I tried to sell it for $500 because $200 was not a large enough profit. So the right thing that would not be greedy would be to sell it for $300. I kind of did the same thing the more I think about it with my car. I paid 3,000 and it was worth 4,000, but I thought I could get $5,000 so I tried and God told me to sell it for what it was worth (through conviction) and I did not even thinking about it, but it was right and everything worked out. Now if I would have stood firm at 5,000 that would have been greed. what do you think? I think you are right and I was wrong but thanks for helping me work this out.. -Zach

    The other subject on the job will take some prayinmg and thinking. It is possible that God wanted to make this clear to me and thats what He was trying to tell me. All of my thinking occured when He told me to hold up on the job pursuit, which triggered all of this thinking. This could have been his reason, for me to come here and talk it out.. Im working on it and I know I may never know, like most things in life..
     

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