Gun Control

Discussion in 'Politics' started by evangelist6589, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589
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    I am all for banning the sale of certain weapons (that belong wit the military) off the street. I do believe that people kill people and not guns, however when you give someone EVIL, crazy, or possessed a weapon that they do not deserve they will go wild with it, as we saw last week. Certainly citizens have the right to bare arms, but why give them military style weapons? No reason..
     
  2. Revmitchell

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    No reason not to. Of course this is not really a baptist issue and there are multiple threads going on about this already.
     
    #2 Revmitchell, Dec 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2012
  3. Oldtimer

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    Further, what does this tragedy have to do with "military style" guns?
     
  4. pinoybaptist

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    FWIW, Adam Lanza, the shooter, was not the owner of the weapons. Those weapons belonged and was registered to his mother, his first victim.
     
  5. Zaac

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    I'm not sure what "banning" these guns is going to do. Historically, ,anything that we ban has a way of making it right back onto the street via the black market.

    The government wants to give the perception that they can "control" things but they cannot.

    You might trip crazy and unstable up. But it's pretty difficult to stop it especially when you have no idea how it will act.

    Banning those guns would not have stopped this tragedy in Connecticut because he would have just used something else.
     
  6. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    What do movie theaters, shopping malls, and elementary schools all have in common?

    They are all “gun free” safe zones.

    Until we get rid of this idea that government can ensure your safety by passing a law or putting up a sign then this problem will not go away. In all three of the recent shootings one legally armed civilian could have stopped it early.

    When I see one of those signs in a store window that says “no concealed weapons allowed” I realize that by entering I am giving up my 2nd amendment right to defend myself. I also realize that the store/school/whatever else is unable to defend me and I am at risk.

    Do you really want to solve this problem?

    First - Make any institution that takes away my constitutional right liable for it. If I am not allowed to defend myself and I am hurt, then they are responsible.

    Second – Any teacher that wants to and is willing to pass a state law enforcement course should be a designated resource officer and should carry to school. Of course they have to be able to legally own a firearm so mental patients and convicted felons would not be eligible. I wonder what percentage of our teachers that would be?

    The second amendment was written with military weapons in mind. The militia clause is there specifically so that military weapons cannot be banned from private citizens. Any military weapon, from plastic explosives to M-1 Tanks should be allowed by the 2nd amendment.

    There is no constitutional right to shoot deer, dove, or clay pigeons. But there is a constitutional RESPONSIBILITY to overthrow any government that becomes too oppressive. But I guess we lost that argument in 1865.

    Oh well, off the soap box. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
     
  7. pinoybaptist

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    We might as well ban everything. No knives of any sort, also ban stones, rocks, slingshots, cleavers, axes, chainsaws, hatchets, scissors, razors, baseball bats, dagger stares, paintball guns, BB's, ballpoint pens, quill pens, nail guns, bows, arrows, crossbows, nails, hacksaws, ban anything that can be used as, or converted to, a weapon, like a credit card that whose edges can be sharpened to slit throats.
    Ban martial arts, too.
    The human body properly trained and utilized can be a very effective murderer of another human body.
    Ban John of Japan for that matter, or restrict his movements. LOL.
     
  8. Zaac

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    :laugh: Quit it. :laugh:

    But you're right. The knee jerk response by most, including those in Christ, whenever something happens is what could we have done to prevent this and how can we galvanize our defenses to allay this from happening again?

    EVERYTHING should point God's people back to Him. If we don't understand that this all continues to get worse if we don't turn back to God but rather keep responding in defiance that we're going to institute new, bigger and better measures to prevent these things OURSELVES, then we might as well just hang up the cleats, hunker down in a corner of the house and wait for the next tragedy.

    As simplistic as it sounds, the answer is GOD and it always has been.
     
  9. ShagNappy

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    The general public cannot possess, even with a concealed carry permit, military style weapons. Only those possessing a federal firearms permit are allowed military style weapons. The weapons those shouting the loudest about banning guns want you to believe are military style weapons are simple, semi-auto (they call them automatic weapons, which is a lie) weapons with plastic, or composite, bodies on them to make them look like something they are not. Many of these weapons they want banned will still be readily available to the general public with wood stocks that make them look like hunting rifles. They will function exactly the same with the only functional change will be the number of bullets in the magazine. These "military" weapons just look scary enough to get people to buy into the banning of guns.

    Lets instead face the elephant in the room, which is mental illness is not something for people of the world to make fun of any longer. It is time to get rid of the social stigma attached to these problems and get these people help. Including returning to, unfortunately, locking up those who are violent and cannot be helped. Let us be humane about it though.

    In short, it is time for some honestly from those who want to restrict gun ownership, then perhaps a real conversation can take place about the problem of violence in this world.
     
  10. evangelist6589

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    I do not agree. Banning these type of guns may not eliminate all acts of violence but it would certainly reduce them.
     
  11. evangelist6589

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    Thats not what I said. I am all for the 2nd amendment. However perhaps certain types of guns need to be off the street. I am all for owning a gun (however I have none) but if I did I would not be opposed to it.
     
  12. evangelist6589

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    No its not mental illness its demon possession, or the evilness and depravity of the individual, or both. I am tired of the news media blaming psychology for everything bad that happens and not taking responsibility and facing facts that this man was EVIL, and possibly demon possessed.
     
  13. Benjamin

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    COLUMBINE STUDENT’S FATHER 12 YEARS LATER !!

    Guess our national leaders didn’t expect this. On Thursday, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House Judiciary Committee’s subcommittee. What he said to our national l
    eaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful.

    They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice crying in the wilderness.. The following is a portion of the transcript:

    “Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers.

    “The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain’s heart.

    “In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don’t believe that they are responsible for my daughter’s death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel’s murder I would be their strongest opponent

    I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy — it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best.

    Your laws ignore our deepest needs, Your words are empty air. You’ve stripped away our heritage, You’ve outlawed simple prayer. Now gunshots fill our classrooms, And precious children die. You seek for answers everywhere, And ask the question “Why?” You regulate restrictive laws, Through legislative creed. And yet you fail to understand, That God is what we need!

    “Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, mind, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation’s history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine’s tragedy occurs —politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts.

    “As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America , and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA — I give to you a sincere challenge.. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone! My daughter’s death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!” - Darrell Scott
     
  14. ShagNappy

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    And this is a perfect example of why people with mental illnesses do not get treatment. I will never understand why seemingly intelligent people can go through life believing every square inch of the human body can get sick, be deformed, damaged, etc., except the brain. I will bow out of this discussion now, as I am sure we are about to descend into absurdity.
     
  15. Oldtimer

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    Pardon me while I climb on your soap box for a minute and echo what you've posted.

    Thank you.
     
  16. Oldtimer

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    Thank you for sharing this, as well. It's good to know that there still are voices crying in the wilderness of this land.

    Perhaps, after getting off our own knees, the first place to start is with the media that does not, for the most part, give any voice in the wilderness the opportunity to be heard. And, if by chance they do... no I take that back, it isn't by chance -- And, if one of those voices is heard, the protrayal is that of a tin foil hat, red-neck, country hick, gun toting Bible thumping right wing terrorist preaching hate.

    Again, thank you.
     
  17. pinoybaptist

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    chill, brother. I didn't say you said that. I am simply echoing what most say when it is suggested that guns be banned because they kill people. my point is that anything can be used to kill people, even the most seemingly innocuous ones like a plastic credit card that can be sharpened enough to slit throats. ask prisoners. they can fashion a shank out of newspapers stiff enough to pierce skin.
    as for taking certain types of guns off the streets, it will be futile. not that I'm being argumentative, or downright pessimistic about it, but ask any cop willing to give you an honest answer and he will tell you that most gangs today have enough small arms firepower in their arsenal to give the police a real party. and they didn't get them legally from stores either.
    if the honest, law-abiding taxpaying citizen is allowed by law to own and carry like firearms, restricting them will just give lawless elements an edge.
     
  18. blackbird

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    Its a little known fact that Lt. Gen George Patton came about the purchase of military tanks out of his own pocket---I believe until around the year 1943----because the Army he was serving had no money to purchase----I believe he purchased numeroous of the "Stuart" tanks that was used in the north African campaign of WW2----so yes, I suppose if you have the "bula-bula" to buy a few M1A1 Abrams tanks . . . and a few F-18 Hornets . . .
     
  19. nodak

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    It's fairly safe to say had the shooter been armed with a couple of six shooters and a real hunting rifle the adults probably could have stopped this at far fewer deaths.

    There really is no need for the average person to be armed with assault weapons.

    I'm a hunter and do not favor general gun control. BUT--I do favor restricted clips and banning assault weapons......to the point of confiscation from current legal owners with reimbursement.

    But I think what really needs to be done is honesty regarding mental health. Not every person with a developmental analomy or mental illness is dangerous.

    However, for those as severely affected as this young man, placement years ago in a secure treatment facility would have prevented this.

    We don't want to go back to snake pits, but our fear of them is preventing us from dealing in a healthy manner. Insanity exists and we need to step up on that front.
     
  20. Tom Butler

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    It is fairly certain that if every teacher and staff member in the school were armed armed and trained, there would have been fewer deaths at Sandy Hook school. It is fairly certain that if a few selected administrators had quick access to assault-style weapons, the young man would have been dead before ever reaching a classroom.

    It is fairly certain that if the principal had been strapped, she would not have had to lung toward the shooter to shield children. He would have already been dead.

    It is fairly certain that a sign at the front door of the school which says "Our teachers, staff and administrators are armed. You have been warned" would have caused even a mentally unbalanced nut to at least think about it.
     
    #20 Tom Butler, Dec 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2012

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