Happy Mother's Day: Woman pregnant with 18th child

Discussion in '2008 Archive' started by webdog, May 9, 2008.

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  1. webdog

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    LITTLE ROCK, Ark. - It's a happy Mother's Day for an Arkansas woman — she's pregnant with her 18th child. Michelle Duggar, 41, is due on New Year's Day, and the latest addition will join seven sisters and 10 brothers. There are two sets of twins.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080509/ap_on_re_us/18_kids

    When is enough, enough :eek:
     
  2. hillclimber1

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    When a married couple decides....
     
  3. queenbee

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    I don't begrudge the couple their many blessings. I have watched their television documentary about family life and they seem like nice folks. The kids look happy, healthy, well-behaved and well taken care of. The only concern I have is that if Mom & Dad had wanted to have such a large family, could they not have considered X number biological children and adopting a few? Seems a shame when there are so many young children and teens out there yearning for a 'forever' family.
     
  4. bibleman89

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    Glory to God!

    Psa 127:3 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
    Psa 127:4 As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.
    Psa 127:5 Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.
     
  5. rbell

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    I've always wondered what God has against tall kids.


    After all, He says in His word that "lo children" are blessed....what about "hi children?"





    :D
     
  6. Magnetic Poles

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    This is ridiculous beyond belief. But it comes as no surprise that the father's name is "Jim Bob". :laugh:
     
  7. sag38

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    "This is ridiculous beyond belief"

    I fail to see how this is ridiculous. ????
     
  8. webdog

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    When you have your eldest children taking care of some children because you can't care for all 17 (soon 18), it is ridiculous and enough is enough! They have already admitted that they have a system where the older teens take care of the middle aged children, while mom and dad take care of the youngest ones. That is child abuse, IMO, as the teens have no business raising their siblings. If a parent can't do it due to sheer numbers...the parents need to stop having kids! Absolutely ridiculous. Scripture states that the person who doesn't provide for their children is worse than an infidel. If a parent cannot provide for ALL of their children, that fits the bill.
     
  9. Emily25069

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    Magnetic Poles

    Their "buddy system" is actually how things were done for many years when families were larger. Even as the youngest of 5, my older sisters helped my mom out a lot when I was a baby and small child.

    The teens are not raising the younger children. They are helping the parents with things such as getting the younger children dressed or put in the car, etc. But Michelle and JimBob are the ones raising the kids. They are certainly not taking off and partying or being irresponsible. Michelle homeschools and teaches and trains and works out the schedule herself. All the kids have chores and jobs and things tend to run smoothly. In my opinion, more kids need chores and jobs and responsibilities these days. There is too much of an emphasis on childhood and being a kid and not enough of an emphasis on becoming an adult.

    The Duggars are not really doing anything new. Its just not the norm anymore.

    I do not know the Duggars, but I do know a handfull of "quiverfull" families who run their homes very similarly and the families that I know are such a joy to be around. One of the families I know does indeed know the Duggars and mentions that they are a great family to know!

    One of my good friends is the eldest of 8. She is 24 and at home. The youngest is 3. My friend does the monthly grocery shopping and her and her next 2 siblings in line cook all the dinners. The mom certainly isnt lazy though. She is busy homeschooling, keeping the home in order, and helping their father run their business. (as do all of the older kids). It is different from the norm, thats for sure, but its WONDERFULLY different. Its incredible the amount of love and joy and peace that is present in this family.


    Why didnt the Duggars choose to have a few and then adopt?

    Well, I guess that comes from the belief that birth control is not in Gods plan PERIOD. Even if they did adopt, they would still be having 18 natural kids as well because in their eyes, to prevent a pregnancy is wrong and goes against the belief that children are a blessing. Thats not my belief, but if they really believe that preventing pregnancy is wrong, why should they do it? What scripture could you give them?

    In my opinion, its not these folks continuing to have kids that people need to worry about. Its all those parents who are creating those children that end up needing adoption that we should be worrying about.
     
    #9 Emily25069, May 11, 2008
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  10. Joe

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    These children are forced into parenting their own brothers and sisters, and forced into educating their siblings. They cannot enjoy their siblings as siblings because they are forced to act as their parents.
    Children parenting and educating other children against their will with no break. They don't even attend school.

    If the children REFUSED to help their parents raise their brothers and sisters, then the smaller children would be neglected, period.
    What a predicament these parents have placed their children in!

    Even years ago, people didn't have THAT many children.
    You are comparing a quiver full of 5-9 kids to 18 children
    None are enrolled in public school.

    I also knew a handful of a "quiverful"of families but none had this many kids, not even close.

    Basically, they helped raise their siblings but it wasn't abuse as it wasn't expected 24 hrs per day. The kids attended public school with me, spent the night at my house when their mothers could get extra help for the night. It was sad they had such responsibility, but it was nothing like this situation.

    These folks are so lazy they don't even want to get their kids ready for school in the morning, so they "homeschool".

    This is not the Waltons, this is abusive.

    You are comparing 8 kids to 18 kids again. Apples and oranges.

    Kids whom are not your own are harder to deal with. They often can't be "ordered" into abusive situations as easily, they are more likely to rebel.
    Being forced to educate their siblings and parent them is something they may refuse to do. Maybe that's why.
    There are many ways to fulfil our spouses s*xual needs as the Lord commanded of us.
    Intercours* is only one way so that point is mute.

    A woman is fertile only one week out of the month, leaving a whole three weeks to do whatever you want. It's not rocket science.
    It's fine to view birth control in that manner. That is not the issue here.
    We are to be good stewards of everything. There are plenty of bible verses which indicate it's a given the father will parent his own children, not other children parenting and disciplining other children.
    And God did not command intercours*, but did say husbands and wives are to satisfy one anothers s*xual needs. Intercours* is a luxury, a gift from God not to be used irresponsibly to get a woman pregnant as often as possible.
    CPS ought to intervene in this situation.

    Not to mention these parents are exploiting their kids. Parading them in nice clothes which match (now that is weird, where is personal preference here?) for the media and hollywood.
    Poor kids! they earn $$ for their parents to live, parent their parents kids, educate their parents kids, talk about exploitation!

    You know some of these children are shy and likely don't want to be paraded about on television. See pictures of their faces in national magazines, newspapers, etc...

    Imagine the guilt trip they place over the kids who want to avoid hollywood and the media.

    When they had 11 kids, they lived in a home no bigger than mine. We are a family of 3. There was only like two bathrooms or something like that. Back then, the children were forced to parent and school the younger ones while all cooped up in this little house.

    I read a few articles online when this subject came up last time. It said they were building a 7000 sq ft home at the time. The father had a good job but not good enough at that time to be living in a decent size house. So with all of these kids, and the father working, oftenthe only adult present in the home responsible for ALL 11 of these kids was the mother.

    They likely made plenty of $$ off of their own children to upgrade.
    I guess they will have a reality tv show so now the kids will feel spied upon while they are earning a living for their parents and taking over their responsibilities.

    When these things happen due to circumstances beyond our control (such as a parent's death) the kids understand. They know they are not being exploited, and feel loved. It can bond families together when trajedies occur.

    But when it's deliberate, [snipped by C4K] little Ben knows his mother has little time for him, and has created a situation where it isn't going to get better but worse. I can't see the children feeling loved. IF you divide the 12 hours per day we are awake, these kids receive less than one hour per day of attention by their parents. Children receive even less attention and love per day by their father who probably works at least part time.
    Not to mention how all of these pregnancies damage a woman's body. [Snipped by C4K]

    Her health needs to be taken into account.

    Crude comments deleted by C4K
     
    #10 Joe, May 11, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2008
  11. hillclimber1

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    I'm sorry to here your line of reason there Joe. Emily points out that there is no scripture to back you up. Your too many kids and can't care for them doesn't seem applicable to this case. Practicing birth control, is like having a beer. Some people can do either in good conscience, and some can't. They are not being a stumbling block to weaker folks, in that they are not condemning you for your BC practices.
     
  12. Joe

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    And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord." Ephesians 6:4

    Not sisters or brothers, but fathers

    Deuteronomy 21:18-21 says, "If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear and fear."

    A child is to obey his parents, it never mentions obeying his siblings because THIS IS THE PARENTS JOB.

    Proverbs 29:17 “Correct thy son, and he shall give thee rest; yea, he shall give delight unto thy soul.

    Correct thy son, not correct thy brother or sister

    1. Ephesians 6:1: "Children, obey your parents."

    It DOESN'T say, children obey your sister or your brother.

    Proverbs 1: 8-15, "My son, hear the instruction of your father, and forsake not the law of your mother: For they shall be an ornament of grace unto your head, and chains about your neck. My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not. If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk secretly for the innocent without cause: Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit: We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoil: Cast in your lot among us; let us all have one purse: My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain your foot from their path."
    Hear the instruction of YOUR FATHER. NOT YOUR SISTER OR BROTHER, as they are siblings whom God has chosen a different role for in the family order. THEY DO NOT have the biblical role to ACT AS PARENTS

    Proverbs 4:1-2 says, “Hear, you children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding. For I give you good doctrine, forsake you not my law

    Not the instruction of your brother or sister, but YOUR FATHER.

    It's quite clear what the Lord requires of us as parents.

    :confused: this is sad

    Um, practicing birth control is NOTHING like having a beer. Birth control is not the issue here.

    Just curious, but if it's ok to ask, how old are you?
     
    #12 Joe, May 12, 2008
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  13. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I have to say Joe that I am shocked at your vitriol against this family. This mom and dad will answer to God, not you, for their choices.

    Look back in 20 years, I can almost assure you that all or most of the 18 will be healthy, valuable citizens.

    Call in CPS, surely this comment is not serious, but meant or provoke a response.


    I won't take time to deal with all of your views on how the word of God applies here, but let me just choose one

    I assume then that you did all of the nurturing and admonition for your son? You never shared that with your wife? It says "fathers" not "parents."


    Who are you, or me, or anyone else to declare that a family has too many children?

    What is someone were to say? "Only having one child is selfish and self-centred on the part of the parents. All they are thinking about is the easy way out. If they can't have any more they ought to adopt a few so they can raise a godly family. Having one child is the ultimate act of parental selfishness. This is sad."

    Or is it right to only be critical one way?
     
  14. Joe

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    Vitrol? What are you talking about?
    I never said they would answer to me
    I never said they wouldn't be healthy, viable citizens.
    No, I am not a troll. I used to work in CPS doing intake so I am not taking this lightly.
    We used to be foster parents but now we only do respite care (babysitting for foster kids). So yes Roger, I do know what I am talking about.
    In fact, this summer, we may be going back to doing foster care.
    Deal with what views? I posted bible verses and pointed out whom they are directed to :confused:
    Actually, I was being lazy to just make a point. Read the verses, many or all include mothers. So no, I didn't do all of the admonition but as the head of my family, it did fall on my shoulders more than my wife's.
    When a couple can't properly care for their many children, CPS will check into it if it is reported. There are many potential factors here to look out for.
    Not sure what your point is, so I don't know how to respond. You would need to be more specific, what is the perceived problem in this situation?
    Roger have you ever taken care of children whom have been physically or sexually abused? They are often from large families because the mothers/fathers don't bother to take responsibility for their children, they have too many to care for. They are exhausted.

    Do you have any idea what happens to kids whom parents shirk their responsiblities? kids who take on ADULT roles FOR their parents?

    Btw, I made NO crude remarks here. Why did you edit that? maybe you misunderstood what I was trying to say. But the point was left so that's enough.

    I know you mean well. You are a godly man, that's for sure.
     
    #14 Joe, May 12, 2008
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  15. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I deal with abused children and adults all the time. This is Ireland, remember. Huge families were part of Irish culture years ago and you are correct, abuses and neglect do take place. But it also takes place in homes of 2-3 children.

    But you are wrong to pre-judge this family, No one is being abused or neglected. The older children will be better parents and citizens because of the wonderful opportunities provided them.

    I respect you Joe, that is why I am surprised at your attacks on this family. If you have been in their home, interviewed parents and children, and you still feel this way than you have a point. If not you are surley prejudging them based on your opinion.

    How many children should have family be permitted to have before you think CPS should be called in? Surely there must be standard. Is 8 too many? 10? 14? CPS has no business going into a strong, healthy, and vibrant home because someone thinks they have "too many" children.
     
  16. Joe

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    We do not know whether they are being abused. There is likely only one adult present to oversee these child workers. In real life, this would violate child labor laws if the employer wasn't their parents. These long hours are horrendous. I don't even work those long hours.
    I don't know if the older one's are sexually or physically abusing the younger ones because they are children, not mentally equipped to handle such a huge load for so many hours a day. Probably not (of course) but this is a unique situation where children are being pushed to the edge of their mental capabilities.

    The older children may decide not to have children of their own because in a sense, they have already raised children. So who knows if they will be better parents as you say, though they will have some skills to speak of.

    Children raising children is not a biblical way of doing things.

    They have the right to be children, not take on adult roles. Not be exploited in the media for $$$They have the right, as children, to play and have fun with their brothers & sisters. Play make believe. There is a imbalance of power here which is not healthy.

    Early on, I did research on this family. Offhand, I can't see why CPS would remove these kids from the home. In fact, it ever occured to me but they do need some guidance. She needs to quit acting like kids are puppies, they are blessings from God. They take time, love and care. Something she/he can't offer them due to the limitations of a 24 hr day. What they are doing is not God's will.
    It's not about the number of kids but the result of having this many children.
    Whatever....You are correct in that I don't have much respect for them. Actually, I think they are both mentally ill to some extent.
     
    #16 Joe, May 12, 2008
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  17. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I for one am grateful that Susannah Wesley's mom did not stop with her 24th, but went on to have Susannah, herself a mother of 19, all of whom went on the to serve the Lord.

    I assume your disrespect for huge families would extend to these two ladies?
     
    #17 NaasPreacher (C4K), May 12, 2008
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  18. webdog

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    Did Mrs. Wesley raise her kids...or her children? I'm sure some parents can raise 18 - 24 kids. This family obviously cannot, or they wouldn't be assigning childcare to their children.
     
  19. Sopranette

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    What's wrong with having older siblings taking care of the younger ones? My older sisters took care of me and my brother sometimes. It was a great help to my mother, and my sisters learned some new skills. Too many children these days don't have any responsibilities. They expect everything to be handed to them, on demand. It's healthy and normal to have children take on age apprpriate responsibilities. I have been following this family off and on for a couple of years now, and they really do seem to have a handle on everything. All the kids are healthy, pleasant, and good Christians. The family also built a huge house, by themselves, and have no debt. That's really impressive.

    love,

    Sopranette
     
  20. webdog

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    It's one thing for an older sibling to take care of a younger one on occasion...but it should NOT be the normal day to day relationship between siblings. I agree this family seems really pleasant. They seem TOO pleasant..."David Koresh family" type pleasant. Something awfully fishy about this family. Besides home schooling, Jim Bob home churches the family. This is in direct violation of Scripture in forsaking the assembly of believers. I'm sure there is a church in their town they can attend...so why home church your family? I'm thinking it's to hide something, as there is really no other reason.
     
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