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Discussion in 'Forum for Polls' started by Hark, Feb 27, 2016.
Is it harder for pastors to grow in Christ?
How much experience do you have as a pastor?
Why does asking the question makes one a pastor?
Your question seems to imply some experience as a pastor growing in grace.
Well, we all have been around pastors.
I certainly been around a pastor that preached from the pulpit that it was not an unforgivable sin to get a divorce.
That was his butt kissing two powerful families that has their children that were young adult in the process of getting a divorce after three months of marriage.
I just do not see how preaching that from the pulpit is anything God would have him say. It's like the devil saying, go ahead and sin; God will forgive you.
Is it an unforgivable sin to commit suicide?
Is it an unforgivable sin to commit murder?
Is it an unforgivable sin to fornicate?
God does not give grace to commit sin, but to repent from them.
Then you have this same former Presbyterian pastor endorsing a different young couple desiring to be street missionaries in Italy in trying to get Catholics to go back to church.
Something stinks to the high heavens.
Then you have this same pastor emphasizing how important it was for the church to continue to fund the men's breakfast each week as if he does not have enough money to pay for his own with his high salary, paid benefits, and plush retirement fund.
Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. 19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
Then many years later, a new but young senior pastor came, He invited every member to come to him at church for anything. I had come to him one time and he said he loves to go into the Bible and even learn new things from the Lord when reading the Bible. After several hard questions, and insisting that the RSV was way better than the KJV ( which he did not have on him but had to look in the church's library for it, and even had a disdain for just using the KJV Bible, and then suddenly, it was lunch time and he had to go. He was not glad to see me the next time I popped in for a visit one morning, but he had no time for me. I checked his calender appointment when I was in the church's secretary's office and he had only one appointment which was in the afternoon after going on and on about all the stuff he has to do that is going on in the church. So much for that open invitation and his willingness to even have a Bible study with laymen who did not have college degrees.
He did com across as a hireling; a politician. He got the job, and in spite of his invitation, he is enjoying his comfort zone as much as he can. I had seen him on his lap top and wonder just how many pastors are in christian forums for outreach during all of their downtime and idle times while sitting in their office in church through the week? Not that many.
He left because of some problem with the former church he was in that had a claim of an embezzlement that he had somehow been a part of. Supposedly it was a misunderstanding, and I can give him the benefit of the doubt, although he has not returned and someone else has replaced him.
So... don't you think you can use your own imagination as to why it would be hard for pastors to grow in Christ out of all of that?
Makes one wonder if people sought careers to be a pastor because they think it is easy.. like being a politician in pleasing the people with words in doing a "job", serving money, rather than actually serving the Lord.
Friend, if you wanted to discuss issues about a particular pastor, I think you would have been better off skipping the poll.
As for embezzlement, one of the best pastors I've ever known had a hostile deacon board try to railroad him with similar charges. Two sides to every story.
It's hard for one to grow like Christ when the person refuses to go to church, no matter how spiritual they try to come across to others.
As far as a pastor goes they (we) should always be progressing in our transformation, just like the rest of the flock; 2 Cor. 3:18. There are special trials for pastors as they defend the faith and protect the flock from wolves, error, sin etc.
Looking around at the shallow doctrine and false teachings of many we should all pray for pastors. They (we) need to get with the program or get out of the pulpit and let a man of God who is unafraid and unashamed of the truth to take over.
You don't show much respect for the bride of Christ nor for pastors; 1 Timothy 5:17.
More like a series of pastors churned out by our educational system. Just a general concern that more pastors are career oriented; money serving, rather than actually heeding a call from God to serve Him.
It is possible for a pastor to lose sight of his calling when the "storms" of his office mislead him into people pleasing rather than God pleasing to keep his job.
Apart from my point about TCassidy seemingly inferring my having experience as a pastor to give this poll from which my point is that one can make this poll having been around pastors, this is not pertaining to only the Presbyterians ones as I have been around other denomenational "leaders" , including Baptist ones.
I am fully aware of that as I have posted that I have given him the benefit of the doubt although he had never returned. That does not infer guilt, but it sure doesn't look good, especially for the way he has been "pastoring" around me.
So I do have a concern that it might be hard for a pastor to grow in Christ, and I have listed the choices showing areas of hindrances that I see that could happen, because it has.
Except that it wasn't the failure of the pastors doing their jobs that turned me away; it was iniquity that the whole church refuse to acknowledge as they got involved in the apostate Promise Keepers' movement in 1994. It was then that the Lord had set me free from my commitment to follow Christ when a Catholic/Mason in a Pentecostal type ministry Bible Study of "Crossing Path" with Don Reed leading that tried to defend it by asking "Isn't a commitment like making a promise? Sure it is."
No wonder I was double-minded in my walk with Him. Jesus wanted me to live by faith in Him all the time, and cease doing the best I can from keeping that commitment to follow Him. He will help me to follow Him by faith alone as I can only do so by relying on Him all the time for following Him since He is my Good Shepherd.
Unless the pastors are sleeping and see ecumenical means as a way to increase attendance and gain more members to the church.
I agree, but apostasy has abounded everywhere that I have been discouraged from praying when obviously, no one wans to listen that challenges what they have always been practicing.
I have led a woman to make a commitment to follow Christ when I was on my former church's evangelism team, and after He had set me free, I sought her to set her free, but she moved. Jesus told me to let it sleep with Him as I had asked Him to forgive me by setting her free.
I can only imagine the resistance by overwhelming guilt if a pastor has been leading many believers to make commitments that they just don't want to believe they were misleading believers into iniquity by taking on a bondage to finish by the flesh what was begun in the Spirit. They refuse to even see Promise Keepers as taking God's Covenant and putting it into their mouths in making themselves good husbands and good fathers by keeping those promises by the deeds of the law.
But I believe Jesus can forgive the pastors in setting them free just as I believe they can ask Jesus to set those astray free from the bondage they had led them into, and they can rely on God for whatever opportunity they have for the remaining time that they have on earth before the Bridegroom comes, to do good to the household of faith by reproving the keeping of any religious bondages as if that is the power in living the christian life or making oneself "good".
God has to have a hand on that. He can do it, but I haven't seen anything like that when a church will permit a man of God to replace an unrepentant educated degree pastor in a pulpit, even though part of the job of the elders is to watch over the pastor too and not just the flock so that there would be no need for that "event", but it sure does look like it.
I just don't see how that can happen in the face of elders, pastors, and church members that just follow the crowd, unless God intervenes.
Well, I am not sure how else you would call that action when it is that offensive to God & His words in my point of view.
Could I have toned it down by saying they were catering to them rather than butt-kissing? I suppose, but even I am human. I shall lean on Him to try not to get emotional about that incident or any other incident no matter how offensive I see that action as.
So, of course, you can see their hearts and know their deepest desires?
Their words as well as their actions speaks for them. That is not to say that one pastor speaks for all of them.
Hence the poll which shall exists no more.
And you are privy to every word they speak and every action they perform, both in public and in private?
The poll is closed.
But you should consider how any one can do this.
Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
You mean like those who ignore Hebrews 10:25 "not forsaking our own assembling together, as the custom of some is, but exhorting one another; and so much the more, as you see the Day approaching?"
That's written unto a church as an exhortation and is for the church.
As if these references does not exists for why I have withdrawn.
1 John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
Ephesians 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
2 Thessalonians 3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;.....14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
Iniquities are as followed:
The commitment to follow Christ as a religious means to make believers follow Him.
The seven promises of the Promise Keepers' program.. as if the yoke of a commitment to follow Christ was not enough.
And any other promises taken on by a believer to make himself good and to do good. Matthew 5:36 James 4:13-17 James 5:12 Galatians 3:1-3
Honoring the Holy Spirit in worship when the Holy Spirit is not leading believers to do that, but to honor the Son because that is the only way to honor the Father ( John 5:23 ) and the Father is only glorified by the Son ( John 13:31-32 & Philippians 2:5-13 ) which is exactly what the Holy Spirit has been sent to do ( John 16:14 ) through the believers even in worship ( John 15:26-27 ).
I believe broadening of the way in worship is the iniquity spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 7:13-27 & the solution is to narrow the way back to the Son; Luke 13:24-30 because Jesus is the only way to come to the Father by in worship ( John 14:6 ) Yes. I believe Jesus really meant what He'd said.
This is how bad it is in these latter days where faith is hard to find, because Protestant churches and Baptists do not see the evil of it. The Catholics and the Pentecostals/Charismatics certainly don't see it.
My staying and repeating it will only be seen as beating a dead horse.
Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
But what happens when the church doesn't and supports the errant doctrine and offenses to God?
Well, you certainly won't have to worry about that when and if it happens.