HBO's, "Big Love" Series. Mormon Polygamy

Discussion in '2007 Archive' started by eightball, Jul 18, 2007.

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  1. eightball

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    Have any of you folks watched or followed, HBO's "Big Love" series that's been going for a couple years now?

    If so, do you see any sort of agenda in how it's being presented to the public?

    I don't know if the LDS church is commenting or up in arms over the show, but I think it really reveals some of the weird stuff that comprises LDS history.

    What's your take on this show?
     
  2. DeeJay

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    I have seen the first season.

    The LDS church is up in arms.

    It is a pretty accurate portrayal of moderate poligimests.

    Not history, I know dozens of familys just like that. There is a big polig house a couple of blocks from me right now. A Dr. that my kid went to (because normal Dr. was on vacation) is the third wife of my wifes friends dad. Its all over the place around here, just a normal part of life.
     
  3. eightball

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    All I can say is, "Wow!".

    Thats a mind blower!

    So that show isn't really exaggerated? There's a lot of Polygamists not living on compounds in isolated areas. They are actually getting quite "public" about this.

    Do they scripturally support their Polygamy, or do they refer their authority back to Young or Smith Jr.?
     
  4. DeeJay

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    The show is pretty corny in places. They over do the mormon steriotype with the words they say, and they add drama within the family that who know if it goes on or not. But as far as poligs living through out the comunity there are alot ALOT of moderate poligs that do.

    Of course the fundemental poligs seperate themselfs into compounds, just like on the show the family it is about goes to visit the compound.

    Not public, per say. They dont advertise. But everyone knows and they do not try to hard to hide it. Its dont ask dont tell. The large polig house that is close to me is right beside one of the most used highways in the state. it looks like 6 nice duplexes built on the same property with one big yard. On the 4th they had bouncy houses and blow up water slides in the yard and dozens of kids out playing.

    Saturday is the day the compounds come in to the costco. It is a circus there with all the neck high ankle length old fasion dresses.

    SO not much hiding, but the moderate ones have jobs (wifes to) and they have to hide somewhat to keep the job.

    Sandy city (the city where the show takes place) fired a police officer a few years back because his covers were pulled. He had 3 wifes.

    Mormons believe moderen prophicy superseeds other scripture. They say the Joseph Smith started a new dispensation. So they would treat the bible like the old testement and the book of mormon as more revieled scripture. Moderen mormons have been told they have recieved prophicy to stop poligamy for now. But poligs reject all LDS prophits after B Young.

    They would use the bible to suport their newer scripture by pointing out old testement kings and prophits who were poligimists.
     
  5. DeeJay

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    And some poligs care more about being found out then others. It depends of it their job is at stake or not. And if they are defrauding the goverment out of welfare. The state of Utah does not want to take poligamy to court for fear that the supreme court would rule it a religious right. The poligs they do take to court are defrauding welfare or are marrying underage girls. That is the charge. The state will not just charge for being a polig even though it is against the law.

    There are certen neighborhoods where the whole place is polig houses and compounds where anybody can just walk right in. Not hidden or protected. I grew up about 30 min. from a coal mine that is polig owned and operated. The compound was right behind. The workers did not get money they got homes, food diapers, what ever they needed. I delivered appliences to the compund for a furniture store I worked at. It was interesting.

    Remember in the show when the older wife wins mother of the year. And she gets found out just before she walks on stage, they take the prize from her and kick her out. That is based on a true story. That exact thing happened.
     
    #5 DeeJay, Jul 19, 2007
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  6. Pastor Larry

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    Is there something spiritually edifying or redeeming about this show that is causing Christians to watch it?
     
  7. eightball

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    Pastor Larry, there's nothing edifying or uplifting spiritually back when I owned a Porsche, and used to Auto Cross with the Porsche Club of America. I did it for personal interest, and R & R, time.

    As for my Spiritual life, I enjoy a number of shows that probably lack any value in the area of Spiritual growth, yet I have a strong, love, and devotion for my Lord and Savior too.

    I think my watching "Big Love" is part curiosity, and part entertainment. Also, I was involved with Ex-Mormons for Jesus when I was attending bible college years ago, and have had an interest in the workings of Christian and non-Christian cults. Part of what I get out of this is some knowledge as to why and how these folks, "tick" in the head and where they are coming from with their motivations and unbiblical actions of living.

    I watch a number of shows that probably don't bolster my Spiritual/Christian life, as I enjoy, History channel documentaries, TLC channel shows about medical issues, from obesity, to plastic surgery, NFL Football ( real redeeming, but fun).

    The number one thing about mine or any Christian life is that we have some "balance". We are not of the world, but we surely live in the world, and it is not inherrently evil, but is flawed from times past.

    I do not watch watch shows to feed any sinful apetite. I also believe many other Christians, wholly devoted to their Maker, would agree.

    I think the Sitcoms of nowadays are absolutely "stupid" and have little or no value, except to push liberal sexual, inuendos, as well as many other unscriptural ideas/values on the populous.
    ********
    There was a time when our three sons were very young, and I had absolutely unplugged the television, for what I believed was their protection. All I engendered in my sons was more curiosity to find out what I wouldn't let them see and hear.

    When they played with their friends next door or close by, they watched television. They came home and they didn't. What I found out that many things in the world are "neutral", and it's man or us that "moniker" or make them into "bad" things by the way we introduce them to our off-spring, or to other Christians in our attempt to be disciplers of others.

    We could go into the area of Paul's dissertations on mature bro versus immature bro. Yet, Paul said, "Don't let your maturity" prick the conscience of the immature bro, so refrain, mature bro.".

    I think that I submitted this post in the section called, "Current Events". Big Love is a current, television event or series, about a Mormon family living a Polygamus life out and away from the typical compound of communal living. I do find it entertaining as these folks try or attempt to "hide" their lifestyle, and cope with basically a monogamous world, that I totally believe is unbiblical.

    Value to me? Probably infinetely small.

    Did it do something negative to my relationship with God? Absolutely not. Did watching the show put things in my head that cause me to lessen my devotion and love of God. No. If anything, it pushed me closer to God, as I witnessed these very lost characters in this show following such abhorrent teachings of the "Principle" to their very demise and personal hardship and failure before our biblical God.

    I don't know you Pastor Larry, so I don't really know specifically where you're coming from with your question, but I would be very careful about asking those questions as you can also cause an issue to evolve that totally blows this topic out of proportion, and into a realm of legalism concerning other Christian's lives, and peace of mind before their Maker. I'm not referring to peace of mind as a result of ignorance, or denial of scriptural truths, but of having a mature outlook, understanding of scripture, and a secure relationship in God, through Jesus Christ. In other words, asking whether there's value to the activity of doing anything in life. It's extremely easy to transgress into the area of prolific, "Do's and Don'ts" in one's Christian life that a type of legalist "bent" can rob a Christian of their very innocent, love, and understood unconditional acceptance by their Lord. It's good to and important to be a Berean in all things of life, but we don't want to stop pulling our donkey out of the perverbial ditch on the Sabaath either. Do we?

    Deejay shared some very interesting things about Polygamy in or near where He/she lives. My original post was just asking about people's "takes" who have watched the show. Deejay has been very insightful and a first-hand witness to affirming some of what the show projected to the viewer.

    "Love your enemy.", and "Know your enemy.", and be equipped with answers and insight from knowing where the lost are coming from philosophically, culturally, and also in their religiosity.

    Above all, don't quench,stifle, or trouble, the believer that's at peace with God via their secure relationship, and new identy (New Creature/creation in Jesus Christ) based on scriptural truths. :)
     
    #7 eightball, Jul 19, 2007
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  8. Scarlett O.

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    Thank you, Larry. I was waiting for a man to speak up and say something first before I did.

    I'm not a prude and I do watch and read some things that perhaps other people at the BB may not, but I found the show to be offensive.

    This particular show is sexually explicit and there is nothing edifying at all about the depiction of a man who has to divide his sexual attention and sanity between three wives, three homes, three sets of children, and three lives.

    And it is about sex. On many levels. Despite the fact that is it about other things, too.

    I don't subscribe to HBO, but I get a free week-end every few months or so. I watched the pilot episode (I think it was the pilot) because I like Bill Paxton (the actor who plays the Viagra-addicted husband).

    I was grievously disappointed in the content. As a free-thinking woman, as a Christian, and as moralist.

    But I don't know why....after all, it is HBO.

    Like HBO's other programming, it is not pleasing to God nor suitable for Christian viewing.
     
  9. eightball

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    I'm sure God is very well-pleased with you. :)

    As for the rest of us mis-guided one's, I guess we'll have to just rest in God in our mis-guided, or skewed understanding of the scripture, or "straighten-up" and get with the program. Right?
     
  10. Scarlett O.

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    Oh, I see. This is research.

    I watch TLC also. And the history channel. Hmmm....I don't recall watching people have sex on these channels.

    I believe that there are many secular programs and activities that we can enjoy. But they are not for "balance". We don't need to "balance out" anything in our Christian walk. Our Christian walk is our Chrisitian walk whether we be praying, watching our kids play soccer, teaching a bible class, or reading the New York Times.

    Our secular life and our Christian walk aren't on opposite ends to be balanced out. We don't take a little prayer, then take a little football. Our Christian walk reigns over ever part of our lives, even the parts that are involved in secular activities.

    And the reigning of our walk with Christ keeps our secular activities in check.


    You do not consider this program to be liberal (are there not positive homosexual characters?), sexual, and full of double entrendes?


    Paul said for us not to offend the weaker brother.

    You said that you did not watch this show to feed a sinful appetite. Alright.

    But what about a brother who might struggle with sinful appetite and by your discussing it on a Christian message board as if it were just another episode of "I Love Lucy" persuaded him that it was perfectly alright?

    Let's just say for the sake of argument that you are the stronger brother. Paul said that the stronger have an obligation to the weaker.

    Hmm.....that's funny. I thought it was my spiritual maturity that caused me to be offended by the program.

    Then why don't you try the public library.

    Do you feel at peace with God when watching this program?
     
    #10 Scarlett O., Jul 19, 2007
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2007
  11. eightball

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    To your last question, "yes".
    ******
    I think that so many of us Christians, have isolated ourselves from the world in ways that are not biblical, but out of fear of God, and not peace and security in God. There's a big difference.

    Peace in God is not looking for "sordid" things in life that feed the "flesh", and then justifying it to the bretheren.

    We could take Pauls comments Christians that would eat foods that had been used in Pagan temple ceremonys. He said, "It's just food to Him.". He did say however to now partake in eating this food if some brothers or sisters, were bothered by seeing you do that. I totally agree. Paul said the food is neutral, but so some, to which he referred to as immature Christians, it was "sin" as it affected their consciences, and their ultimate walk or relationship with God.

    We are not to do anything that troubles other believers, into either leading them into sin, or troubling their consciences about right and wrong, and choices of their lives.

    Big love is a fictional series about Polygamus Mormons.

    Your right, there's some sexual scenes in this series, but they are far and in between, and don't add, but probably do detract from the series. I don't watch the program for those sexual scenes. When they come, I take the opinion that this is just the old fallen world trying to throw in some of it's typical enticements that's in practically every TV show and movie. I take it with a grain of salt. There was a time when I would avoid any and all movies unless they were PG..

    Now my feet are solidly locked on solid ground spiritually in Christ. This doesn't give me Cart Blanc approval to delve into all the sordid and unethicalness of life; far from it. What has happened here, is that I refuse to accept or allow those areas of some shows or parts of life that try to entice me into sinful, wandering thoughts, and them miss out on some otherwise neutral entertainment. Can any Christian do this? Most likely not.

    I just think that we as Christians must also remember that Jesus chose to go to Zacheus's house where who knows what went on as He dined there. Zacheus was considered the grunge of society, and there was most likely much drinking and possibly dancing girls and who knows what at his house. Jesus went there out of love for Zacheus, not to get drunk or to oogle over the women. Yet, maybe Jesus had a drink of wine and laughed at jokes. He came to save the sick not the "well". Sadly the "well" were sicker than the "sick" that He came to save. Sadly the sickness of the "well" was that they looked upon others of their culture as the ones in need of help and straightening-up. The log wasn't in Zacheus's eye, but in those that looked upon Jesus's foray to dine at Zacheus's as sinful.

    The more that I've learned to relax as a Christian in my secure relationship, the more I've learned that the world is an adventure that God has laid out to us to meet those divine appointments that may lead to someones salvation through our planting, watering, etc..

    I've played pool in bars with one of my sons, while being the only one there drinking a coke. I met one young man who was drinking heavily, and just accepted him as he was, and played pool with him. He saw my non-alcoholic choice of beverage, and before you know it he was asking me why. I told him of my faith and low and behold, this young man was a P.K.. Yes, a preacher's kid. I got to talk with him for some time, and he broke down and admitted that he had been drifting away from God, because his dad(preacher) had made such a restrictive/religious life for him and his siblings. He wondered how, me a Christian could walk into a bar full of alcoholics, and sinners, and married men hitting on women, not their wives. I told him I came here to just play pool and have a nice time with my son.

    As things turned out, the man made an forthright decision to make amends with his family and get back to his Christian life/roots. I can honestly say, that when I went into that bar, Christ was loving those folks through my life. I was at peace. I came there, not knowing that I would be an ambassador.

    Now I could have told my son, that I am not going into that bar as it's filled with sinners and women and men hitting on each other and many being married and basically committing adulter. All sorts of things would could have come to mind. My son who drinks and is a Christian, but doesn't go to church, and is fighting God's leading for his life, would have been hurt by my rejection. In other words, I would have been rejecting him as well as his friends, and his life.

    I entered that bar to be with my son, not to get drunk, not to watch with curiosity as lost folks or straying Christians compromised their values. I came in, secure in Christ, and with a love for my son.

    As it turned out, an young man was discipled by me right in a bar. This man came to tears, and repentance. He observed that I accepted him, and ignored the surroundings and what he was doing with his life. I focused on him, not his sin, or his choices. That was something, dear old Preacher Pop, hadn't done. I convinced him that he was loved, and that even though he had givein his life to Jesus years ago, Jesus had not abandoned him, because he was in this bar and living a sordid life. This in not unlike the Prodigal Son. The father never waivered in his love, and hope to see that son again.

    I convinced that young man that he was a secure that day as he was the day he loved and gave his life to Jesus. The relief on his eyes and countenance was something else!
    ******
     
  12. eightball

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    So with that little foray from Big Love, I just want say that what some Christians think are off base or wrong, might need to be re-thought.

    I've met some folks that the mainstream church would never want in their pews, but were folks very devoted Christians never the less. They just didn't fit in to the mold, of preconcieved ideas of what a "Christian" is supposed to be.

    God is not a respecter of man. His parameters, are not ours. He sees redeeming value in much that we would throw in the refuse pile of life.

    Christian, becareful and beware, when Jesus said He came for the sick and not the well. That was a cynical statement on His part, as the "well" were the ones that thought they had it all together, and He/Jesus wasn't necessarily referring to the lost in all cases when speakin gof the "well".

    There are weak Christians and strong Christians. God wants us to forge along in this world as strong Christians. This means that we must rethink what He means by right and wrong. What is sin and what is not sin.

    If there was sexual dancing at the bar, I would have told my son that I must go, as it was not right for me a married Christian man to be there. My son would have respected me for that choice.

    I have my boundaries, and they might not be yours, never the less, I'm at peace with the ones I have set. No doubt I will have new boundaries to set as my life proceeds-on. Also I may have to rethink some old boundaries as to their signifigance in light of God's leading through scriptural validation.

    I've probably gone to places, many Christians wouldn't for fear that something would rub off on them spiritually, or that they would be tempted or bothered in conscience. Good for them! They shouldn't go there. I'm with them 100%. The big "but" is those Christians must also accept that because another believer partakes or goes somewhere or does something isn't necessarily an indictment of partaking in sin.

    We all have are boundaries or limits in our Christian walks. They will change as we grow in Christ. The name of the game is to "cease striving and just know that I am god", or "be still and know that I am God", Psalms 46:10. We strive too much and rest too little. We try to be good, and all along, God has said that Jesus finished the work on the Cross, and we are deemed "good" in God's eyes. Yet we strive to be pleasing to Him, and He says, you are already pleasing to me. We do this or that "for Him", and all along God wants us to proceed with life, and do things "in Christ" in a mode of Sabaath rest.

    We've been crucified, buried, and raised up in Christ's life. We are spiritually seated in the heavenlies in Him. We are in this world, but not of this world. There is a vast harvest field ripe for the harvesting out there. Yet we spend or expend so much energy managing or observing the lives of our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, shooting ourselves in the perverbial foot, while the world looks on at us bickering over what shows to watch, and not watch.

    Instead of being salt and light, we are like the Hatfields and the McCoys. What message do we send to a sick and dieing world, that needs to have us become all things to all men for the sake of the gospel. Wheres the love of the bretheren that the world needs to see. Instead they see us split congregations over the color of the carpet in the sanctuary, or sprinkling versus total immersion. King James, NIV, NASB, RSV.......etc. bibles............

    I really think that the body of Christ in so many cases has a big old microscope that seem be aimed at their own, and so much energy is expended trying to "weed" out, behaviors, that don't conform to one's alleged biblical "take" on the Good news and how it gets out there.

    The other problem is what plagued the Galatia church. They were called Judiazers. They were systematically robbing the local Galatian body of its peace and rest in Christ's finished work in their lives. These Judiazers had the truth, and they felt compelled to make sure all lived by this "truth" that they held above the rest of the bretheren.

    The simplicity of the gospel was compromised to no end, and to this day, still is as believers are to fit "molds" or they are "out of fellowship" or "drifting" or " not saved". :(
     
  13. DeeJay

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    I guess you two are just better then us, I can live with that.

    Why not start a thread on how you dont watch big love and are better then those who do?
     
  14. eightball

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    You condensed my two page post down to one concise sentence. :)
     
  15. Pastor Larry

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    Who two? I said nothing of the sort.

    I am somewhat surprised that a show that is built on a premise of adultery and fornication is approved of and watched with "peace." It would seem somewhere that Ephesians 5 would come into play.

    I do think discernment is not a big sell in today's modern Christianity. I don't think we should back down from saying that some things simply shouldn't be watched. That's hardly legalism. I think eightball's post hints at legalism, but appearing to say that anything that isn't specifically forbidden is okay. I think that is narrow minded. I think we should do better at developing discernment so that we can minister effectively to a lost and dying world.
     
    #15 Pastor Larry, Jul 19, 2007
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  16. Scarlett O.

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    Oh, boo hoo! You're going to have to do better than than DeeJay and eightball. :saint: I never said anything of the kind.

    If you two want to have a pleasant discussion on your mutual admiration of that show, then take it to a fellowship forum.

    This is a debate forum and while I don't enjoy debate as a rule, I feel that I must challenge you on this. I'm not claiming superiority. I can't. I'm not superior. I just have a different viewpoint and strong opinion. Maybe my distaste of this show comes more from me being a woman than a Christian, I don't know.

    I can express my opposing views on a debate forum as to why I believe that this program is not suitable for Christians to watch. It's not the only show out there that's not suitable. And there are some television commercials that are just as bad.

    You discussed the pro. I discussed the con. That's what a debate is.


     
  17. eightball

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    Totally misunderstanding my comments.........How could I be surprised.

    Yep, you got me, I'm a legalist........a regular Pharisee of Pharisee's.......You can tell by my posts. Not!

    As for considering anything not forbidden in the bible as "ok", far from it. Common sense, scripture, and the Holy Spirit should be one's guide.

    We drive cars to church...........Not mentioned in scripture. A legalist would say, we must walk, I guess. Sex scene in Big Love...........Therefore turn it off, as you will be tempted and fall or spiral into sin yourself. I think we are missing the point that some folks aren't allowing those areas of the, 'said' shows or programs to be the focus of their watching it.

    And to say the show is basic fornication/adultery, is to naively critique it. This thing called Polygamy is a reality. The show isn't portraying Star Wars. It's portraying something akin to real life in our nation. It goes on. It's unbiblical, and many Christians would rather stick their collective heads in the collective ostrich hole and avoid this sad scenario of the lost, because theres some sex scenes in it.

    Actually, when those guys in the dress, white shirts and neck ties show up at my door after riding their bicycles miles and miles, I really have more insight into their bondage and lostness. Big love shows the naivity, and blind alliance to false prophetic teaching, the denial of the human species to "own up" to their foolish folly, the degree to which we hide sin, and or fornication, because we really know what we are doing is wrong. (Romans 1)

    Maybe we wouldn't have so many wayward P.K.'s in the world if their parents or fathers would ease up a little and not treat their families in ways akin to pharisitical abuse. Children and spouses of preachers have to "tow" the line more than the average Christian. If they hiccup, the congregation wants to know, "Why?". The Preacher/dad holds the keys, as any Christian holds the keys. Where is our identity. In an image, a profession, in increased attendance, giving, "great sermon pastor/comments", or in resting in God's total security and provisions for our lives?

    Franklin Graham came around, but not all of them do. Sometimes the sake of the ministry, sacrifices the most important gifts of our lives, and that's our families.

    Many a missionary has devoted their alleged calling at the sacrifice of their off-spring. God calls, but He also tests to see if we will prioritize according to His will, and His will, is that we account for those that depend upon us first.

    God doesn't need us anymore than a "flat" tire, when it comes service. If that service supercedes are familial responsiblities. That's where so many Christians serve in the flesh, thinking they are helping God. Service isn't helping God. It's abiding in God and doing whats natural according to our new identity/personna that was given to us at salvation.

    To many folks put their identity in jobs, reputation, "atta boys/atta girls, and spend little or no time being Christlike to their children.

    They/Christians spend too much time muddling around pointing out fault or problems in others and not enough time managing their own walks.

    Again, no wonder the unsaved world is wholly unsaved after 2000+ years.
    ******
    I am just concerned about the mounting critiquiing that happens within the church at the expense of great energy that could be used to be salt and light to the world instead.
    ******
    I do discern an atmosphere of spiritual superiority here.

    In fact when I posted this, "Big Love" topic, I had on the back of my mind, when will the first post come through critiquing the poster's Christian life. Call it intuition or whatever, but it happened.

    We are so quick to point out and in the "name of God" want to correct our fellow brethren from what? So something doesn't affect us that isn't affecting us.

    Ever heard of "false guilt". Christians are experts at laying it on. The secular world could get some great expertise from following our forums. :)

    Don't touch, don't see, don't experience, don't, don't, don't. Not unlike the thousand plus additions to the ten commandments that the Pharisee's implored all to follow in order to be good Jews.

    If a Christian is at peace, make sure they aren't, cause they shouldn't be.:BangHead:
     
    #17 eightball, Jul 19, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2007
  18. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Which I think proves my point. I can't speak for anyone else, but I have no spiritual superiority whatsoever.

    So isn't this what you are doing? Trying to create a sense of false guilt on me for having the audacity to question whether a show based on adultery and fornication is spiritually edifying. I don't expect you to see that, which supports my original point.

    "Peace" isn't the indicator of right or wrong. I think many people make a big mistake. We forget that "peace" is often an indication of a poorly trained conscience.

    Let's try this: Judge Big Love (which I have never seen) by Phil 4:8. Would you go word by word through Phil 4:8 and tell us how that qualifies?
     
  19. DeeJay

    DeeJay
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    I have never defended my watching of the show or said it was right. I think I could do better things with my time. I am not saying it is ok, however I find it amusing that we all as sinners love to jump on things and point out others sins. I guess it makes us feel better to do so. You dont watch good for you. There are those here who do not watch TV at all, good for them. This was a thread about thoughts on the show. I will admit that I watch it and tell what I think.

    I do not feel the need to hide the things I could probably do better at and I dont feel the need to jump on others for doing the things I do not do (unless asked specificly). I know that even if I do not do what they do, I do other things I should not.
     
  20. DeeJay

    DeeJay
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    Debate away then. I have seen the show and live in the area where it happens. I must point out the question was not "is the show approprate to watch".

    If you want to debate then you should stick to the topic or start another. But I posted above what I think about appropriatness. I watch, but I do think I could spend my time other ways. I am not perfict I guess
     
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