Quote: Originally Posted by pinoybaptist Tell me, brother, is this condition of being "saved" in the eternal sense ? Yes and no. Quote: I mean (and I have asked this question several times on the board) does hearing the gospel by the elect result in the blood of Christ being applied to him and being effective for him, washing away his sin, and acquiring for him the eternal salvation that God in eternity past planned he should have ? In the eternal work of God, Salvation is finished and was applied to only His people on the very day He died on the tree. 1) Christ is called "Jesus" because He shall save His people from their sins (Matt. 1:21). 2) He is called the Saviour of His body (Eph. 5:23). 3) The Good Shepherd lays down His life for "the sheep" (John 10:15) 4) and He lays down His life for "His friends" (John 15:13). 5) He is said to die" that He might gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad" (John 11:52). 6) It is said that Christ "hath purchased the church with His own blood" (Acts 20:28). There is no substitute for the time-honored, God-exalting truth of substitutionary atonement -that Christ our Lord actually bore the sins of those for whom He died specifically. If all were on the cross, it is clear all would be saved because the sins were washed away. However, He stood in the place of the "many" who would actually experience complete deliverance from all their sins. Isaiah 53:11 Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied;by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities. Matthew 20:28 even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many." Matthew 26:28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. Hebrews 9:28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him. John 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. Now I understand someone will follow this post with a few verses that say Christ died for all and claim this all means all of mankind. Both sets of verses cannot be right if taken that way. There is but only one way to make them fit together and believe all the verses of the Bible as true. Ok..with this work of God being true it still does not negate the fact that ALL of the elect must believe. 1) We are not ashamed, of the Gospel for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes (Rom. 1:16). 2) God uses the instrumentality of faith in Christ's sacrifice to bring the CONSCIOUSNESS of justification and salvation (Rom. 3:24, 25; 4:5). This is the passaged I preached on this morning. 3) Faith, is a gift of God, and that it is no more a work than is circumcision (Rom. 4:11, 16). If faith is not needed then the gift that comes from God is worthless. My Lord Jesus Christ substituted for "sheep" given Him by the Father, and not for the devil's "goats!" However, the instrument God uses to bring the sheep to the consciousness of salvation, is faith so that they can believe. John 3... Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.. So...the elect does believe. Why? well...the passage tells us why. 21But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God." Gill says, the Persic version reads, "that the work which is between God and him may be known"; that such deeds may be discovered, which are only known to God and himself. Quote: I have no objection about the gospel being preached to anyone who will listen wherever and whenever an opportunity to do so is presented but like the hyper-Calvinist I do not believe that just any man is obliged to repent . All are not. But we have no idea who will and who will not. No one is "near" to salvation then the other. Therefore we preach to all. Quote: The obligation to repent and believe is to every elect child of God, who has already (as opposed to one who is to be) regenerate. I disagree. Regeneration is the opening of eyes to believe. The elect will not always hear/understand their need for the gospel the 1st time they hear the gospel. It is when God pulls back the darkness that they can understand and believe. Quote: What both Arminians and Calvinists fail to realize, or refuse to accept (because it will go against orthodox teaching as well as seminary teaching) is that Paul in the above quoted text is speaking of regenerate and elect Jews who are still caught up in their religion for the simple reason that Christians of his era are so fearful of orthodox Jewry that these have not been reached with the good news of Christ's finished salvation. Therefore the question: how then shall they hear without a preacher ? Your point matters little if it is indeed true. The fact remains that Paul is telling us to GO and Preach and we have no idea who the elect is. Even if as you believe, there be regenerated people that do not know it, which hardly makes sense to me, for with a new life, we see new life, which is not part of your idea here that I can see,.......any way, if we were to set that aside and believe as you have stated, you still must take Paul for his words and share the gospel for you do not know who the elect is. __________________ Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.