HCSB Compared With TNIV

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Rippon, Sep 12, 2008.

  1. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    Time for comparisons again.That is one of the main reasons for this forum;right?
    As you know,I think Today's New International Version is the best version out there in English.It's the best of all worlds.I have ranked the HCSB as #2 for a long time,but it's experiencing turbulence from the NLTse.The latter is edging the former.
    Anyway,I like the HCSB.It's the closest thing to TNIV aside from the NIV itself.In this thread I will usually list some phrases (snips)from both versions in a kind of side-by-side contrast.I'll also note the various times in which TNIV was more literal than the HCSB by using the footnotes of the latter!

    I'll start with the Gospel of Luke.HCSB at the top -'H',and TNIV --'T'at the bottom.

    7:1 :H: in the hearing of the people
    T : to the people who were listening

    8:28 :H: What do you have to do with me
    T: What do you want with me

    9:33 :H: not knowing what he said
    T: (He did not know what he was saying.)

    10:7 :H: Don't be moving from house to house.
    T: Do not move around from house to house.

    12:50 :H:But I have a baptism to be baptized with,and how it consumes Me until it is finished!
    T:But I have a baptism to undergo,and what constraint I am under until it is completed!

    12:55 :H: It's going to be a scorcher!
    T: It's going to be hot

    18:5 :H: so she doesn't wear me out by her persistent coming
    T: so that she won't eventually come and attack me!

    19:44 :H: your children within you
    T: the children within your walls
     
    #1 Rippon, Sep 12, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2008
  2. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    Remaining With Luke

    What follows are examples of TNIV being more literal than the HCSB as taken from the footnotes of the latter.The TNIV retained the literal rendering while the HCSB kept a more functionally-equivalent form in the text.

    H=HCSB;T=TNIV

    1:41 :H:the baby leaped inside her
    T: the baby leaped in her womb

    1:71 :H: the clutches
    T : the hand

    1:74 :H: from our enemies' clutches
    T : from the hand of our enemies

    4:27 :H: healed
    T : cleansed

    4:29 :H: edge of the hill
    T : brow of the hill

    7:8 :H: under my command
    T : under me

    7:22 :H: healed
    T : cleansed

    8:42 :H: she was at death's door
    T : she was dying

    11:6 :H: I don't have anything to offer him
    T : I have nothing to set before him

    11:38 :H: did not perform the ritual washing
    T : did not first wash

    11:42 :H: justice and love for God
    T : justice and the love of God

    12:14 :H: Friend
    T : Man

    15:14 :H: and he had nothing
    T : and he began to be in need

    17:14 :H: healed
    T : cleansed

    24:29 :H: empowered
    T : clothed with power

    Do I have anything against the renderings of the HCSB in these cases?No.The meanings between the two versions are essentially the same.But in other cases where TNIV renders some expressions in a more idiomatic form folks shouldn't attack the version with all sorts of mean-spiritedness. The HCSB is an accurate, evangelically conservative translation.And so is Today's New International Version.
     
  3. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Rippon: // Time for comparisons again.That is one of the main reasons for this forum;right? /

    Yep, that is what it is all about.

    Thank you for doing this and AMEN!

    I do have both Bibles and especially use the HCSB.
     
  4. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    We're In Acts Now

    Actually this is a continuation because Luke/Acts was orignally one book.

    H=HCSB;T=TNIV

    1:18 :H: he burst open in the middle
    T : his body burst open

    2:46 "H" simplicity of heart
    T : sincere hearts

    3:2 "H" lame from his mother's womb
    T : lame from birth

    4:33 "H" great grace was on all of them
    God's grace was so powerfully at work in them all

    5:30 "H" hanging Him on a tree
    T : hanging him on a cross

    5:37 "H" all his partisans were scattered
    T : all his followers were scattered

    7:29 "H" At this disclosure
    T : When Moses heard this

    12:15 "H" You're crazy!
    T : You're out of your mind

    13:12 "H" seeing what happened,believed and was astonished at the teaching about the Lord.
    T : saw what had happened,he believed,for he was amazed at the teaching about the Lord.
    [I think for is the better conjunction]

    14:13 "H" He, with the crowds,intended to offer sacrifice.
    T : he and the crowd wanted to offer sacrifices to them.

    17:10 "H" Beroea
    T : Berea
    [Is 'Beroea' the new,standardized spelling?]

    17:18 "H" pseudo-intellectual
    T : babbler

    18:6 "H" I am clean.
    T : I am innocent of it.

    21:3 "H" leaving it on the left
    T : and passing to the south of it

    22:17 "H" went into a visionary state
    T : fell into a trance

    22:20 "H" I myself was standing by
    T : I stood there
    [There are a great many instances in the HCSB with "I myself"]

    22:22 "H" They listened to him up to this word.
    T : The crowd listened to Paul until he said this.

    22:24 "H" examined with the scourge
    T : flogged and interrogated
    [I think that the phraselogy of the HCSB here is archaic.The wording of TNIV is plain.]

    22:28 "H" But I myself was born a citizen
    T : But I was born a citizen

    25:5 "H" if there is any wrong in this man
    T : and if the man has done anything wrong

    25:8 "H" Neither against the Jewish law,nor against the temple,nor against Caesar have I sinned at all.
    T : I have done nothing wrong against the Jewish law or against the temple or against Caesar.

    25:11 "H" no one can give me up to them.
    T : no one has the right to to hand me over to them

    27:17 "H" and girded the ship.
    T : to hold it together.

    27:30 "H" skiff
    T : lifeboat
     
  5. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    Remaining In Acts

    In this post I will give some examples of more literal renderings in TNIV vs. HCSB.Some of the more literal wordings of the HCSB's footnotes are in the text of TNIV.

    H=HCSB;T=TNIV

    4:2 "H" proclaiming in the person of Jesus
    T : proclaiming in Jesus

    7:55 "H" with Jesus
    T : and Jesus
    ["You're being too picky" I hear you thinking.Aren't the details important?]

    10:28 "H" Peter
    T : He
    [See my prior explanation.]

    12:12 "H" John Mark
    T : John,also called Mark
    [See 12:25 and 15:37 also.]

    17:4 "H" a number of
    T : not a few

    17:8 "H" The Jews
    T : They

    Several more were not identical to the literal footnotes of the HCSB.However, the phrasing of TNIV text was closer than the text of the HCSB.Chapter 22:14 and 27:4 can be consulted if you'd like to see.Hopefully you own both the HCSB and TNIV.
     
  6. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    We're In Romans Now

    1:4 "H" established as the powerful Son of God
    T : appointed the Son of God in power

    1:32 "H" they know full well
    T : they know

    2:13 "H" doers of the law
    T : those who obey the law

    5:14 "H" He is a prototype
    T : who is a pattern

    6:5 "H" For if we have been joined with Him in the likeness of His death,we will certainly also be in the likeness of His resurrection.
    T : If we have been united with him in a death like his,we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his.


    12:10 "H" Outdo one another in showing honor.
    T : Honor one another above yourselves.

    13:3 "H" For rulers are not a terror to good conduct
    T : For rulers hold no terror for those who do right

    13:13 "H" walk with decency
    T : behave decently
    [Even the NASBU has "behave properly"]

    15:28 "H" I will go by way of you to Spain.
    T : I will go to Spain and visit you on the way.
     
  7. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    Still In Romans

    The Lit. in the footnotes of the HCSB are sometimes in the text of TNIV.

    1:13 "H" I want you to know
    T : I do not want you to be unaware

    1:21 "H" senseless minds
    T : foolish hearts

    6:7 "H" freed from sins claims
    T : freed from sin

    7:13 "H" did what is good cause my death?
    T : Did that which is good,then,become death to me?

    11:9 "H" Let their feasting
    T : May their table

    15:27 "H" to Jews
    T : to them

    15:28 "H" delivered the funds
    T : received this fruit
    [Actually the footnote says Lit delivered this fruit.But I thought the wording of the TNIV was close.]
     
  8. mcdirector

    mcdirector
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,292
    Likes Received:
    10
    Thank you.

    This is really interesting.

    When you do these comparisons, do you do them on spreadsheets or on paper? It just hit me tonight (ha this morning) that there is utility in both and I was wondering what you prefer.
     
  9. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    Hi Bitsy.I just take notes the old-fashioned way.

    Yes,both versions have value.I prefer Today's New International Version.I think it pulls together the strengths of different kinds of translations into one package.
     
  10. mcdirector

    mcdirector
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,292
    Likes Received:
    10
    Yeah - I meant which note taking way you preferred ;)


    I kind of thought you might be a pencil and paper guy, but I thought I'd make sure!
     
  11. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    I'm just a couple of steps ahead of John McCain in tech stuff;but not as much as a 14 year old!

    Do you have TNIV? If not put it on your list.I may have to go on a one-man crusade for that translation.Zondervan isn't doing much for it.I'd hate to see it die on the vine.
     
  12. mcdirector

    mcdirector
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,292
    Likes Received:
    10
    Not yet. I'm still plowing through the ESV.

    I'll get there though :thumbs:
     
  13. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    That might be some hard slogging.
     
  14. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    Ok,Turn With Me To 1 Corinthians

    1:10 :H: that you all say the same thing
    T : that all of you agree with one another in what you say

    3:4 : are you not [typical] men?
    T : Are you not acting like mere human beings?
    [The HCSB wording would have a connotation in contemporary society not meant by the translators.]

    3:13 :H: for the day will disclose it
    T : because the Day will bring it to light.

    5:5 :H: in the day of the Lord
    T : on the of the Lord.
    [On is the more suitable preposition here.]

    9:19 :H: For although I am free from all people
    T : Though I am free and belong to no one

    10:7 :H: and got up to play.
    T : and got up to indulge in revelry.
    [Strange.This passage refers to Ex.32:6.In that Old Testament verse it has "got up to revel".The translators should have carried it through to the New Testament.]


    11:29 :H: without recognizing the body
    T : without discerning the body
     
  15. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    Now On to 2 Corinthians!

    2:16 "H" And who is competent for this?
    T : And who is equal to such a task?

    2:17 "H" For we are not like the many who make a trade in God's message [for profit],but as those with sincerity,we speak in Christ,as from God and before God.
    T : Unlike so many,we do not peddle the word of God for profit.On the contrary,in Christ we speak before God with sincerity,as those sent from God.

    6:13 "H" you should also be open to us.
    T : open wide your hearts also.
    [Isn't "wide"supposed to be in the text?]

    6:14 "H" Do not be mismatched with unbelievers.
    T : Do not be yoked together with unbelievers.
    [Isn't it important to retain the image of oxen for this idiom?]

    Okay,now for just two literal wordings in TNIV taken from the HCSB's footnotes.

    7:2 "H" Take us into your hearts.
    T : Make room for us in your hearts.

    11:15 :H: Their destiny
    T : Their end
     
  16. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    We Are In Galatians Now

    H= HCSB ;T = TNIV

    1:7 "H" change the gospel of Christ
    T : pervert the gospel of Christ
    [ I think the TNIV rendering packs a stronger punch."Change" just means to alter."Pervert" means to debase.]

    1:8 "H" a curse be on him
    T : let that person be under God's curse
    [ The HCSB's wording here is kind of old-fashioned.]

    2:2 "H" I went up because of a revelation
    T : I went in response to a revelation
    [The wording of TNIV is clearer;even though "I went up" is more literal.]

    3:4 "H" are you now going to be made complete by the flesh?
    T : are you now trying to finish by human effort?
    [ Judge what's best.]

    3:27 "H" have put on Christ
    T : have clothed yourselves with Christ
    ["Have put on Christ" is more literal;but is it best?]

    4:29 "H" so also now.
    T : It is the same now.
    [The HCSB here is too archaic.]

    6:4 "H" and then he will have a reason for boasting in himself alone,not in respect to someone else
    T : Then you can take pride in yourself,without comparing yourself to somebody else.
    [ The words "he will have a reason for boasting" is more literal.But TNIV clears things up.]

    6:6 "H" must share his goods with the teacher.
    T : should share all good things with their instructor.
    [What happened to the missing adjective "good"?It's in the NLTse,NRSV and REB among many other translations."His goods" is not the same as "good things".]

    6:12 "H" Those who want to make a good showing [Same as the NET Bible.]
    T : Those who want to impress others

    6:13 "H" in order to boast about their flesh
    T : that they may boast about your circumcision
    [The TNIV brings out the meaning better than the HCSB.Here's the REB :..."in order to boast of your submission to that outward rite."]

    6:16 "H" May peace be on all those who follow this standard
    T : Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule
    [I've heard "peace to you",and "be in/at peace",but not "peace be on all those".And why is the word "rule" retained?]
     
  17. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    Entering Ephesians

    1:10 "H" for the administration of the days of fulfillment
    T : to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment

    2:2 "H" the ruler of the atmospheric domain
    T : the ruler of the kingdom of the air
    [Perhaps this is unfair because the HCSB plans to change this unfortunate wording.]

    2:21 "H" being fitted together
    T : joined together
    [Is it just me,or does the HCSB's wording sound a little KJVish?See 4:16 also.]

    4:13 "H" growing into a mature man
    T : become mature
    [This wording of the HCSB is especially awkward and unnecessary.Does a female believer grow into a mature man? C'mon.]

    4:25 "H" Speak the truth,each one to his neighbor
    T : speak truthfully to your neighbor
    [The HCSB uses unnatural English here.]

    4:26 "H" Don't let the sun go down on your anger.
    T : Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry. (Sim.to NLTse)
    [ The NET Bible has ...the cause of your anger.The "H" uses older English here.]

    4:29 "H" No rotten talk
    T : unwholesome talk
    [This time the HCSB uses very modern speech.Is it too idiomatic? The idiomatic NLTse sounds sedate in comparison:"Foul or abusive language".]

    6:7 "H" as to the Lord
    T : as if you were serving the Lord
     
  18. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Rippon, you gotta share this with me. :thumbs:
     
  19. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    I just did.I shared it with everyone touring this thread.:laugh:

    You can use my posts here on your blog if you wish;if that's what you mean.
     
  20. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Rippon, you know what I mean. Thanks. :thumbs:
     

Share This Page

Loading...