He shall wear out the saints

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by dianetavegia, Jun 12, 2005.

  1. dianetavegia

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    Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High; and he shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and half a time. 26 But the judgment shall be set, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. 27 And the kingdom and the dominion, and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High: his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. 28 Here is the end of the matter. As for me, Daniel, my thoughts much troubled me, and my countenance was changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.
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    1 Peter 1:12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven -- things which angels desire to look into.
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    First, what does this mean to you?

    Second, do you also find it amazing that even the angels hungered for knowledge?

    Third, are you being worn out by this world?


    Disclaimer: I've mentioned before that I enjoy Bible study but spend my time with 3 year olds. These 'questions' are my 'Sunday School' or 'discussion time' with adults. No hidden agenda... just verses I came across while doing Bible reading today. [​IMG]
     
  2. blackbird

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    Its speaking of severe persecution coming---part of the Times of Jacob's Trouble---in which--Jesus said---if those days are not shortened there will be no man alive to tell about it!!! Pretty severe!!

    Worn out by the world??? Sometimes!! But greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world!!
     
  3. Artimaeus

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    That, as Job was, these Saints will be sorely tested. God is putting in the first string and telling the devil, "Let me show you what I've got" It won't be easy but, guess who wins?

    I Peter 1:12 [Hoffman in Alford]
    “To look into” in Greek is literally, “to bend over so as to look deeply into and see to the bottom of a thing.” See Jam 1:25, on same word. As the cherubim stood bending over the mercy seat, the emblem of redemption, in the holiest place, so the angels intently gaze upon and desire to fathom the depths of “the great mystery of godliness, God manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels” (1 Tim 3:16). Their “ministry to the heirs of salvation” naturally disposes them to wish to penetrate this mystery as reflecting such glory on the love, justice, wisdom, and power of their and our God and Lord. They can know it only through its manifestation in the Church, as they personally have not the direct share in it that we have. “Angels have only the contrast between good and evil, without the power of conversion from sin to righteousness: witnessing such conversion in the Church, they long to penetrate the knowledge of the means whereby it is brought about”.

    I sometimes tell myself I am but, when I look at Job and the saints of the tribulation period, I get embarrassed and realize I am living the good life.
     
  4. shannonL

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    For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. Rom.8:18.

    This is one of my "life verses". It often helps me to keep pluggin!
     
  5. ituttut

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    QUOTE]Originally posted by dianetavegia:
    Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High; and he shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and half a time. 26 But the judgment shall be set, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. 27 And the kingdom and the dominion, and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High: his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. 28 Here is the end of the matter. As for me, Daniel, my thoughts much troubled me, and my countenance was changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    1 Peter 1:12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven -- things which angels desire to look into.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    First, what does this mean to you?

    We’re back into prophecy as the tribulation begins after our rapture. God is again dealing directly with His people and those left. They refers only to God’s people, His nation He made for himself. Those through the line of Jacob will accept anti-Christ for the peace that is offered and seems to be a coming reality. Christianity is no longer, and those that call upon the name of the Lord will again have to do a work, and pay a price.

    They, the house of Israel refused Messiah for Jesus did not present them with what they wanted. They want what this false Messiah offers. Not only peace on earth, but also they will believe they will reign with him, as promised by God, and will rule the world.

    The verses show God controls the events on this earth, allowing what He will, as well as carrying through with His promise of coming in His wrath to Jerusalem and the world.

    Second, do you also find it amazing that even the angels hungered for knowledge?

    You study well, finding things that many Sunday school quarterlies do not present, or do not delved into, in any depth.

    I’m with you, it is amazing for they are so much like we. For many years I’d thought they knew pretty well what was going on all of the time, but studying His Word reveals the angels have their own personality, and are distinguishable in appearance even as Spirits from one another. They are as the stars in heaven.

    The angels are as curious just as we, and don’t know it all. They didn’t understand the prophecies, and they knew nothing of what Christ revealed to Paul. They were no different than David, Moses, or the prophets as they made utterance. None understood anything about the Son of God, as it is now revealed to us.

    All Israel did not understand, viz. those that knew and studied the Old Testament. That is why they refused Messiah. Their understanding meant they looked for and would only accept a King like King David that would conquer and destroy the heathen, making those left their servants, as indicated in the promise. They were not wrong for the promise is to them, in prophecy, but they failed to understand the sequence of events to bring this about.

    I Peter 1:10-11 informs us of this. ”Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11. Searching what, or what manner of time the spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.”

    Verse 10 informs us the prophets and the angels were in the same boat. They didn’t understand about “grace” salvation. Verse 11 vividly shows no one completely understood the Word of God, for it was not revealed, are made known the understanding about the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ. They were not able to fathom their Messiah must first suffer, and then the glory would follow.

    God controls everything, and that includes His Word as He wishes it to be made known. We can now see this, but not before its time. We find the law and the prophets were preached before John the Baptist. We find John the Baptist came preaching the “kingdom was at hand”. But it was not until afterwards at Pentecost that it was actually offered – Acts 3:17-20.

    But even today, if you will continue to study, I believe what you will find is most of Christendom have more or less stopped in Acts 3, but there is more. In Acts 3 please notice Peter does not address the heathen Gentile. The promises are to the nation of Israel. But in verse 25 we see we Gentiles are included, which was also in prophecy, but our only entrance was coming as a proselyte in the Jewish faith of the kingdom promised to Israel. There was no provision for we to enter into the Temple, much less the Holy of holies even in Acts 3. This is nothing new in Acts 3 as it was before known in Old time.

    So where does this leave those that profess Christianity today? We can see above that all things were not the same and people all were not saved by the same gospel from the beginning. There was more than one gospel, even before Paul. When is it that we can find the Body of Christ? Where is it we find out about the rapture; about sleep, the One Spiritual circumcision and baptism without hands? Where is Our Gentile Apostle? Peter, John or the others are not our Apostles are they? Peter says not in Acts 10, for they are not to associate with the heathen.

    Peter had never before preached at or to a heathen Gentile dog on the subject of salvation, and had no desire to even associate with them. This also goes for John and the other Apostles, and they were on firm ground for Jesus while on this earth had no desire to be around the heathen, associate with them or heal them. He says He came only for His own.

    Salvation by the Grace of God, through faith only came after Damascus Road when Christ from heaven chose Saul/Paul the Apostle to the Gentile, and also the Jew. This information is just not in the Word of God until Paul that salvation today comes through, and not by faith. The earthly Apostles, and James shook hands with Paul and Barnabas saying they would only go to the circumcised with their gospel of the kingdom. So I read from Genesis through Acts 8, and James through Revelation, for understanding the Word of God for the world and then His people before prophecy, during prophesy, to the kingdom gospel, through Pentecost, until His nation is cut-off, and back to prophecy. But Christ from heaven has a special message for me, and all Gentiles today, and the Jew that comes as we read the Epistles of Paul.

    The only place I can find Christ speaking to me is in the gospel of Paul that was hidden by God until the time He chose to reveal it. If we can understand Paul, we understand our salvation today, for it is “believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and we will be saved". Today this is the way we are placed, securely, into the Body of Christ, awaiting to bodily meet Him in the air. Not of works or ordinances, but by the Grace of God, without any work.

    Third, are you being worn out by this world?


    Disclaimer: I've mentioned before that I enjoy Bible study but spend my time with 3 year olds. These 'questions' are my 'Sunday School' or 'discussion time' with adults. No hidden agenda... just verses I came across while doing Bible reading today. [​IMG]
    [/QUOTE]

    At birth these bodies begin their downward spiral, so yes sin causes these bodies to wear out whether we wish to admit it or not. But our spirit and soul continues strong looking forward to being like Him forever more. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12
     
  6. rbs

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    On this one point:

    "...they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and half a time .."

    This refers to 3 1/2 years. It's the same verbage used in various places in the scripture and it always means the same thing - 3 1/2 years or the end of the tribulation period.
     
  7. dianetavegia

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    To wear out, in my mind, means to be made useless. You 'wear out' a pair of jeans or shoes and discard them or might recycle the jeans and resole the shoes.

    ReSOULed........

    The verb wear out has 3 meanings:

    Meaning #1: exhaust or tire though overuse or great strain or stress
    Synonyms: tire, wear upon, tire out, wear, weary, jade, outwear, wear down, fag out, fag, fatigue


    Meaning #2: go to pieces
    Synonyms: break, wear, bust, fall apart


    Meaning #3: deteriorate through use or stress
    Synonyms: wear, wear off, wear thin
     
  8. ituttut

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    To wear out, in my mind, means to be made useless. You 'wear out' a pair of jeans or shoes and discard them or might recycle the jeans and resole the shoes.

    ReSOULed........

    The verb wear out has 3 meanings:

    Meaning #1: exhaust or tire though overuse or great strain or stress
    Synonyms: tire, wear upon, tire out, wear, weary, jade, outwear, wear down, fag out, fag, fatigue


    Meaning #2: go to pieces
    Synonyms: break, wear, bust, fall apart


    Meaning #3: deteriorate through use or stress
    Synonyms: wear, wear off, wear thin
    </font>[/QUOTE]Happy to see you, me, and the dictionary agree.
     
  9. OldRegular

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    To tell the truth I don't worry about it. When Jesus Christ returns there will be a general resurrection of all the dead, followed by the Great White Throne Judgment and the establishment of His eternal Kingdom on the New Earth.
     
  10. ituttut

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    You do know we will already be with Christ in heaven before that first resurrection comes. We must remember we are nowhere seen in scripture other than today. We are not in prophecy before Christ spoke to Paul from heaven, and then we are raptured, those in the Body of Christ, whether we be dead or alive. We will be there to meet those of the kingdom, those from Abel on to John. Christian faith, ituttut
     

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