Health Care Mandate Applies to All -- Except the Amish

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Dragoon68, Jan 16, 2010.

  1. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68
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  2. donnA

    donnA
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    anyone who lives in amish country knows they are above the law, they are not required to obey the same laws the rest of us are.
     
  3. Salty

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    So what should the scope of "Religious Freedom" be under the first amendment?

    But then on the other hand, a Southern Baptist Doctor may be required to preform an abortion, and a Roman Catholic nurse would have to give a patient an abortion pill or other conterceptives.

    Actually, I am glad for the exemptions - even if it just the one group for now - but if there is on execption - then it will be eaiser to make more changes in the future.

    Check out this web site

    Salty
     
  4. Aaron

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    If the average American had the resolve of the Amish, Washington wouldn't be full of Marxists and we'd ALL be doing what we want. It's called Liberty.
     
  5. Dragoon68

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    Liberty is for all - not just the Amish, with or without resolve, or the Unions, with or without collective bargaining, or any other special group - and that liberty is in greater jeopardy every day that Obama and friends is in office working on his socialist agenda. The pending "health care" legislation is a disaster in the making for America.
     
  6. Revmitchell

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  7. JohnDeereFan

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    Yeah, how dare the government not be allowed to force the Amish to go against their religious beliefs!
     
  8. JohnDeereFan

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    Actually, I do live in "amish(sic) country" (about halfway between Lancaster/Gap/BirfinHand, etc and another very large Amish enclave in Maryland) and have several Amish friends. In fact, I was just talking to the daughter of one of our Amish friends today. She just got braces and wanted to show them off. But I digress...

    What laws, specifically, do you believe they're not required to obey?
     
  9. matt wade

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    :applause: :thumbsup:
     
  10. Dragoon68

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    How dare the government force any of us - some of us - to pay for the medical care of others, require us to have medical insurance, and tax us if we have a better plan than another.
     
  11. JohnDeereFan

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    I agree, but that isn't the point of the OP.
     
  12. Dragoon68

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    Sure it is! It's directly related to the original post which I made. The point is that some groups - in this case the Amish - are getting special favor with respect to the pending health care legislation. Add to that general point that the Amish are a religious group! What not independent churches who object to socialized medical care by the government? What makes the Amish so special? What makes union or government workers so special?
     
  13. just-want-peace

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    Didn't you learn anything from George Orwell????

    Specifically that, while we are all "equal", some are MORE equal than others!!

    In this case the Amish, congress critters, liberals, the "elite", unions, etc, etc - in fact most all are more equal than the average Joe/Jane that actually earn a living and pay taxes, and pay taxes, and pay taxes, and pay taxes, and ----!!
     
  14. Dragoon68

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    That's the truth!
     
  15. JohnDeereFan

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    No, they're not getting special favor. This is one of the very few instances where the Oba-Mao administration is doing something right.

    You're not exempt from bad laws because you disagree with them. It isn't merely a matter of the Amish disagreeing with the law, but with the fact that including the Amish would force them to violate their religious beliefs, which is a clear violation of the 1st Amendment.

    There are a couple of SCotUS decisions that support this.

    Cox v. New Hampshire (1941); Wisconsin v. Yoder (1972); Bowen v. Roy (1986), among others.
     
  16. Dragoon68

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    Exempting the Amish for the new health care program is pandering to one religious group at the expense of many others who also object. There are a lot of totally independent churches that could make the very same claim!

    It's not about the government honoring the religious beliefs of the Amish - it's about the bad politics they know they'd get from it if they tried to force them to comply.It has nothing to do with the 1st amendment - no more so than Muslims claiming they have to have their driver license photos taken with head cover! A lot of politicians don't want to touch that The government has no problem going after the Christian Scientist - as wrong as they are - over their beliefs because they know it's not that unpopular to do so.

    The Amish shouldn't be treated any differently than anyone else with respect to paying taxes for any new health care plans - as stupid as they are - that the Obama regime gets Congress to puke up. If it's bad for the Amish - and it is - then it's bad for all of us - and it is!

    Most Supreme Court rulings after the Marshall court are simply legislation from the bench - taking over the role of Congress - and should all be struck down for what they are. A lot of "smart" lawyers have created a lot of unwise case law and used it to build themselves an empire contrary to the intent of the Constitution and the will of the people.
     
    #16 Dragoon68, Jan 17, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2010
  17. windcatcher

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    Not true. They are finding themselves limited and governed by many of the same regulations as the rest of us are. Sure, within a state where they make a a significantly sized minority community, they may be allowed certain exemptions which others are not permitted due to their religious beliefs which govern their social and economic culture.

    Would that we all had their independance....from government. But we don't! And we can hang that hat on the fact that WE HAVE FAILED in instilling similar faith based values into the exercise of our living and because WE HAVE FAILED to stand.... and when persecuted, to continue to stand and pay the price peacably, against government, even as they have in various instances, until someone hears our voice and takes note of our own righteous cause.

    I don't understand the bitterness over the Amish being 'treated' different. They pay their own way. If they don't pay into social security.... its because they save and provide for their own and their families and the orphan and widow who is truely orphaned and widow indeed..... without family to help them. They work hard, live frugally, save, preserve, and help one another.

    I say, since the Amish either doctor and nurse their own within the community and take care of their elderly without government assistance..... and since they pay their medical bills with cash.... or collectively come to the aid of someone excessively burdened with medical expenses..... they are no charge to the federal funds such that they should be brought under bondage due to the rest of us.... as equals.

    The trick now is..... how do we become more like them? If that is truely what we desire? They pay their price in their willingness to labor hard and do without many of the conveniences most of us take for granted. Would we be as willing to go back to the scrub boards and crank washers and wringers and hang our clothes on a line? Would we require that every girl learns how to sew her own clothes and underwear? Would we require that men learn how to make shoes and sew buttons and make nets and carpentry with hand tools? Would we be willing to be warmed in a house with hot and cold areas produced by a fireplace or coal or wood stove or stand alone oil heater? Would we be willing to plant and till the weeds and produce our own gardens? Then harvest and shell the peas, and chop the veggies, and cut the corn? Then cook down the sauces, strain the fruit, jar the food and the meat for winter time and disasters? To cook our own bread and grind our own meal? To depend on animals for transportation or bicycles or walk?

    I detect a lot of resentment on this board from some who perceive that the Amish are treated different! It's without forethought regarding the fact that the Amish made a choice.... a good while back.... and have stuck by their choice which is based on their faith in God's providence.

    I'm not saying that we should have to undo the technology by which we survive and our lives are made easier..... but we should have, as a faith driven group based upon scripture, have had the foresight, when government started instituting all its social programs upon the people 'for our good'.... to say NO, We'll do without to share with those around us who are deserving of our help and wherever possible, find ways to include those who can help some, to assist us without the benefit and intrusion of government upon our prosperity or our independance!
     
  18. JohnDeereFan

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    How are they "pandering" to a group that doesn't even believe in voting?

    Have they?

    I don't know what to tell you. I cited three out of at least a dozen SCotUS rulings for you.

    Are you claiming that the Amish don't pay taxes?

    I agree, but you're being inconsistent. First you're mad because the government is trying to respect a group's religious beliefs, and now you're mad because they are trying to respect their religious beliefs.

    Really, Supreme Court rulings that the government cannot force a religious group to violate it's beliefs should be struck down?
     
  19. carpro

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    Perhaps

    But local courts do it all the time by forcing parents, whose religious convictions require them not to seek medical care, are forced to do so for their children.
     
  20. Dragoon68

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    Now, we're back to where we started! This is the problem. The Amish would be excluded from paying any taxes for the health care programs. That, my friend, is a problem.
     

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