Hebrew 2:16

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Askjo, Sep 17, 2004.

  1. Askjo

    Askjo
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    This is for Bible version/Translations discussion.

    I studied my Bible with good reference and found one passage.

    Hebrew 2:16 (KJV):
    Do you understand this verse? If so, I would to like for you to answer expository. Please explain what this passage talks about?
     
  2. Ransom

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    Properly translated, it's pretty self-explanatory!
     
  3. robycop3

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    I believe we can see the message of the one verse by reading the entire chapter. It reminds us that Jesus, being GOD, temporarily laid most of His power & glory aside & took on the same body of flesh, with all its weaknesses, as He made for us in this age, that He became as much like us as possible, minus the sin...and SUFFERED, for our sake, taking the punishment WE deserved. As for the seed of Abraham, Jesus was a JEW as a man, the lineage of His earthly parents being traced back to Judah and Abraham. Therefore His earthly ancestor was Abraham...and Jesus was the SINGLE SEED of Abe through whom all the earth was blessed, as per Genesis 22:18.
     
  4. Ed Edwards

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    Amen, Brother Ransom -- Preach it! [​IMG]

    Heb 2:14-18 (HCSB = Holman Christian Standard Bible)

    Now since the children have flesh and blood in common,
    He also shared in these, so that through His death He
    might destroy the one holding the power of death--that is,
    the Devil--
    15 and free those who were held in slavery all
    their lives by the fear of death.
    16 For it is clear that
    He does not reach out to help angels, but to help Abraham's
    offspring.

    17 Therefore He had to be like His brothers in every way,
    so that He could become a merciful and faithful high
    priest in service to God, to make propitiation for the
    sins of the people.
    18 For since He Himself was tested and has suffered,
    He is able to help those who are tested.

    The capital "H" in "He" shows reference
    to one or all members of the Blessed Trinity.
     
  5. Askjo

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    Properly translated, it's pretty self-explanatory! </font>[/QUOTE]You did not answer my questions on Hebrews 2:16 (KJV). I ask you to explain what this passage said.
     
  6. Ed Edwards

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    Askjo: "You did not answer my questions on Hebrews 2:16 (KJV).
    I ask you to explain what this passage said."

    You didn't quote the right KJV:

    Hebrewes II.16 (KJV1611):

    For verely he +tooke not on him
    the nature of Angels : but he tooke on him
    the seed of Abraham.


    Sidenote: + Or, hee taketh not hold of Angels,
    but of the seede of Abraham he taketh hold.


    Recall that the "Gr" in the sidenote indicates that
    the Greek sources of the New Testament have a variation
    here. The translators put in the text the translation
    of what they though was the best and most likely
    original saying. The footnote containes what in 1611
    was the second most likely saying (translated).
    As it was, in 2004 the second form is more understandable
    to most English users.
     
  7. Ziggy

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    The Greek (identical in *all* texts, all editions) is literally "For not indeed of angels he takes hold, but of seed of Abraham he takes hold".

    After that point, interpretation sets in, and this is why the KJV added "the nature of" in italics.

    Why the HCSB comes up with the *very* dynamic "reach out to help" or the NIV with the dynamic "helps" seems peculiar to me in light of all other occurrences of EPILAMBANW in the NT, which usually relate to taking hold of someone or something in a physical manner. It is by extension of this root meaning that the "help" concept arises, you grab someone to pull them out of the pit, etc.; whether such an extension is warranted here is questionable.

    I would read the "taking hold" as speaking about the incarnation specifically. Not in angelic form, but in fully human/fully divine form (hypostatic union). So there's my interpretation, Askjo.

    May God continue to bless formal equivalence translations, since in them one can more clearly see what the underlying text actually says! [​IMG]
     
  8. Ransom

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    Askjo said:

    I ask you to explain what this passage said.

    Perhaps you are not aware of the meaning of "self-explanatory."
     
  9. Ransom

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    Ziggy said:

    Why the HCSB comes up with the *very* dynamic "reach out to help" or the NIV with the dynamic "helps" seems peculiar to me in light of all other occurrences of EPILAMBANW in the NT, which usually relate to taking hold of someone or something in a physical manner.

    Two formal translations agree with the NIV:

     
  10. Ziggy

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    Ransom: "Two formal translations agree with the NIV"

    Should I be surprised that certain formal equivalency translations at times slip into dynamic equivalency? God forbid. :cool:

    Even NKJV says "Indeed, he does not give aid to angels," but I think it too misses the point in context and departs from a strict lexicography.

    Regardless of what certain formal equivalence translations may do, I still consider the correct interpretation to relate both to the context and to the primary meaning of the basic underlying Greek word within the subject matter of this context, which concerns the issue of the incarnation and not the mere "helping" of either angels or men.
     
  11. Travelsong

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    How fantastic! Whenever one gets down to brass tax and begins a thorough study of Scripture, the KJVO myth is demonstably proven wrong.
     
  12. HankD

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    The next verse in the context lends to the essential meaning of verse 16:

    KJV Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

    To be made - homoioo - one of the principle words used in defining the deity of Christ in relationship to the Trinity.

    "Like unto His brethren". A statement of His intimate realtionship with His creation of man. He became a man.

    IMO, the verse 16 epilambano speaks of Christ "taking up" or "taking possession of" human nature or "the Word was made flesh".

    This is one of the the many meanings (or nuances) for this word epilambano but IMO, I agree with Ziggy, the context bears it out.

    HankD
     
  13. Pastor_Bob

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  14. HankD

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    That's great Pastor Bob. It ties the nuances together. Thanks!

    HankD
     
  15. Craigbythesea

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    We Baptist's would do well to read more of Adam Clarke's commentary on the Bible. It is a free download at E-Sword and other places.
     
  16. HankD

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    Thanks CBS (oops).

    HankD
     
  17. Askjo

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    Look at Pastor Bob. He answered my questions. What about you? I did not see your answers.
     
  18. Ransom

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    I'm sorry that you are unable to read, Askjo. Your two questions were:

    Do you understand this verse?

    Obviously I do, otherwise I would not have posted.

    Please explain what this passage talks about?

    I said it was "self-explanatory." That is an answer.

    I'm sorry you didn't get the answers you wanted, but that's no excuse to whine that you didn't get any answers at all.
     
  19. Askjo

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    No, I read your post but I did not see your answers.
    Finally, I see it. [​IMG]
    Not enough explain! I want to know you explain expository what this passage means. I do not want one phrase, "self-explanatory" but I want your expository answer on this passage like an example of Pastor Bob.
     
  20. Askjo

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    </font>[/QUOTE]Alright, we will discuss about this later. We will see what we learn about this later.
     

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