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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by psalm40.17, Jan 1, 2006.
How did Moses know about Christ ?
The prophecy in Genesis 3:15.
The promise has been from all time. Moses, being a descendent of Abraham, knew that the Messiah would come through the Hebrews and thus preferred that to the riches of Egypt.
He talked with Him
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,
I AM hath sent me unto you.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Hank, a couple of points.
1. This confrontation with God occurred after Moses had fled Egypt, and it was at the time of killing the Egyptian, long before that, which is being referred to.
2. The confrontation at the burning bush only indicates that Moses was confronted by "God", not by God as the Messiah of the Promise. It was not until the book of John in the Gospels that we read Jesus identifying himself as "ego eimi" -- "I am I AM".
Helen is correct.
Christ = Messiah: He is not specifically talking about the man Jesus here.
Moses knew of the promises of the Messiah that would come from the God of Abraham, and preferred that to the riches of Eygpt.
peace to you
I respectfully disagree with you both.
Moses spoke with the I AM. Jesus claimed the title.
The pharisees understood completely who He was claiming to be.
They took up stones to stone Him.
Moses spoke with the I AM after he had made the choice to kill the Egyptian and flee. Therefore the point that he spoke with God, with whatever understanding of whether or not this God was the Messiah, is really moot. His choice was made before that encounter.
Deuteronomy 18:15 The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken...
Notice the "P" in Prophet is capitalized, meaning that it refers to Christ; and in this passage Moses himself was addressing the people of Israel with this prophecy, so he most assuredly knew!
Repent, although your thought here is probably correct, please remember that there are no capitals in Hebrew. The capital letters are at the choice of the translators.
And, again, what Moses spoke in Deuteronomy was long after he had made the decision way back in Egypt, when he was about 80 years younger.
His choice of leaving the first time after he killed the Egyptian was By fear not by faith.
We do know Hebrews 11:26 is in the context and time frame reference of his faith exodus
Hebrews 11:27-29 "seeing" him who is invisible:
27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible
28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
by faith after the I AM revelation from the burning bush.
As to the recompense of reward
Genesis 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
Moses also wanted this reward (as we all do).
"for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
Here's another "what if" Helen since you mentioned ego eimi:
What if the pharisees had and used an LXX?
kai eipen ho theos pros Mosein ego eimi ho on...
I think their response to John 8:58 strongly suggests that they did.
In any event Moses talked with the I AM.
Jesus claimed the title for Himself.
I'm just giving an alternative view (or even expanding upon yours) to Psalm40.17 in this "debate" forum, I could be all wet.
He can decide one or the other, neither or both or something else yet to be offered.
I believe in the infalibility of the Scriptures, so that is where I take my point of view from. I was stating why I think he knew about Christ, which the Bible does show.
Unless you were there, you really shouldn't question what it clearly says, if you claim to be a Christian.
LOL, I believe in the infallibility of Scripture also, Repent, but I'm not that confident about the translators! In its original the Scriptures were perfect. We do not have the originals. So Bible study is well worth the time.
Hank, The Pharisees did have the LXX -- the Alexandrian LXX, which was translated by Hebrew scholars from paleo Hebrew to classical Greek somewhere before 250 BC.
Other than that, I see your point about Moses and grant it. You've got this round! I think you are right on this one. I was thinking of the first time he left Egypt but I think you are right in that the reference in Hebrews is to the second time.
I'm honored Helen.
oops double post.