Hebrews 13:17--"Obey your leaders..."

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Michael Wrenn, Dec 3, 2001.

  1. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    4,319
    Likes Received:
    0
    What does this mean? Does this mean we are supposed to obey ecclesiatical authorities--pastors, bishops, etc.?

    One Baptist scholar that I once read was of the opinion that the word "obey" here is best translated "follow"?

    Your views?
     
  2. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    2,841
    Likes Received:
    0
    Michael -

    The word is peithoµ; a prim. vb.; to persuade, to have confidence. I think "to follow" is a bit weak. I think it means to willingly obey, to submit to the church authority of servant leaders, who in turn submi to and obey Christ. See 1 Cor 16:14-16:

    Let all that you do be done in love.
    15 Now I urge you, brethren (you know the household of Stephanas, that they were the first fruits of Achaia, and that they have devoted themselves for ministry to the saints),
    16 that you also be in subjection to such men and to everyone who helps in the work and labors.
     
  3. Barnabas H.

    Barnabas H.
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Oldtimer</b>

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2000
    Messages:
    6,807
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Wrenn: One Baptist scholar that I once read was of the opinion that the word "obey" here is best translated "follow"?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The word peitho (present imperative active) does imply to be persuaded, to trust, to be confident, assured, followed. It may be understood in light of Philippians 2:29 where Paul is commending Epahroditus to the church: “Receive him therefore in the Lord with all gladness; and hold such in reputation (high esteem).”

    Adam Clarke said that: He is not fit to rule who is not capable of guiding! The problem may be with some IFB pastors is that they take the word literally when it comes to rule and obey (for it is a control thing with them), but they fail to see it in the light of the famous passage of Ephesians 5:22-33, where Paul asks the wives to submit to their own husbands – and then turns around and tell the husbands to so love their wives as Christ loved the Church and gave His life for it! You see it is not at all difficult to obey and submit to such a husband or a pastor if they love as Christ did. [​IMG]
     
  4. qwerty

    qwerty
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Messages:
    417
    Likes Received:
    0
    I know of a church, where two months ago the pastor used this verse, and basically commanded the deacons to "OBEY" him. Needless to say, it didn't go over very well. Most of the deacons quit.

    It seems that pastors who use this verse don't get it. What they don't get is that "CHARACTER MATTERS".

    “Who you are speaks so loudly I can't hear what you're saying. “
    -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Hebrews 13:17 does harmonize very well with other teachings on church leadership when it is viewed not as a military command to obey, but a gentle reminder to both leadership and those under leadership that when the leadership walks and talks like Jesus, then it is wise to follow them.

    It is not difficult to follow a leader who is following Jesus.
     
  5. Brian Collins

    Brian Collins
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2001
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Barnabas:

    Adam Clarke said that: He is not fit to rule who is not capable of guiding! The problem may be with some IFB pastors is that they take the word literally when it comes to rule and obey (for it is a control thing with them), but they fail to see it in the light of the famous passage of Ephesians 5:22-33, where Paul asks the wives to submit to their own husbands – and then turns around and tell the husbands to so love their wives as Christ loved the Church and gave His life for it! You see it is not at all difficult to obey and submit to such a husband or a pastor if they love as Christ did. [​IMG]
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Bingo! Of course, fat chance you'll get the manipulators to see that. [​IMG]

    --B C
     
  6. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    This verse must be taken along with 1 Peter 5:1-4, which says:

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> 1 Peter 5:1-4 (ESV)
    So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: [2] shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; [3] not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock. [4] And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Elders are spiritual leaders and must be esteemed as such. But as one pastor put it so well, the elders are simply the "chief servants." Also, it's been my observation that if you have to continually tell people you are their leader, then you probably aren't :eek:

    [ December 08, 2001: Message edited by: TomVols ]
     
  7. free2know

    free2know
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2001
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    0
    Whoa nelly [​IMG] Seems as if some people really do agree with me here after all! When I first started posting here about abuses that can occur in some misguided churches, all I got was flames and flack. But people really do see that abuses can occur. AMEN brothers and sisters!
     

Share This Page

Loading...