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Hebrews 6:4-6

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by psr.2, Jun 20, 2004.

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  1. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
    5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
    6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


    This verse appears to say that if a person messes up after they get saved they cannot get saved again.
    Then what about I John 1:9?
    " If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
     
    #1 psr.2, Jun 20, 2004
  2. amixedupmom

    amixedupmom Guest

    Appearances are deciving as in this case. One cannot lose thier salvation, but one can become backslidden as in this verse. This verse dosen't say that you lose your salvation.

    After reading and meditating on it. I've come to the conclusion that this describes a back slidden Christian

    4 and 5 explain that a once on the track saved person CAN fall down .

    6. show the promise of explaining we should confess our sins after being saved.

    This says that we are bound to fall but getting up and admitting we have done wrong is the most important thing. The LORD cannot expect a human to be perfect after salvation. It's impossible. The GIFT of salvation is for everyone who has the mouth to confess thier sins and stand up for thier savior .

    I hope this helps
     
    #2 amixedupmom, Jun 20, 2004
  3. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    I've heard the following said about these verses.

    1. It's simply saying that you only get saved once, you don't begin the whole repentance/salvation process all over again. Christ only had to die once...there is no need for repeating the process.
    2. It's doctrinally applied to the Jews in the tribulation, isn't for our dispensation.
    3. It's meant for us, we can possibly lose our walk and be on our way to eternal death after we have been saved.
    4. It's talking to people who have a knowledge but have never actually fully repented and been saved...they knew it was God calling them but still denied it..

    I wrote something on it a few years ago, I'm attempting to find it again, if I do I'll post it. However, there's a lot of people on here that would know the answer so much better than I would...
    [​IMG]
    Gina
     
    #3 Gina B, Jun 20, 2004
  4. Artimaeus

    Artimaeus Active Member

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    Heb 6:4-6 means exactly what it says. It is IMPOSSIBLE to get saved AGAIN. If the blood of Christ wasn't good enough the first time it won't be good enough the second time, or the third time, or the fourth time...
     
    #4 Artimaeus, Jun 20, 2004
  5. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    Thanks for the feedback. I don't believe it's quite that easy. Look at the passage.

    1.It is impossible
    2.They were enlightened,tasted heavenly gift, were made partakers of the Holy Ghost.
    These people are definitely saved
    You are not a partaker of the Holy Ghost when you are lost.
    3.If they fall away (so it is possible)
    This is not just back slidden.
    4.impossible to renew them again unto repentance.

    I believe this passage goes hand in hand with Matt.24:13 "He that shall endure to the end shall be saved."
     
    #5 psr.2, Jun 21, 2004
  6. amixedupmom

    amixedupmom Guest

    Then we agree to disagree welcome to the Baptist Board psr2. [​IMG]
     
    #6 amixedupmom, Jun 21, 2004
  7. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    Why jump off the topic so fast? Why can't we actually have a BIBLE discussion?
    I just posted a topic in the bible version site.
    "Why I hate the KJV.. I hope everyone will read it and begin to discuss some content for a change.
    Doesn't it bother anyone that they are not able to explain some verses in the bible?
     
    #7 psr.2, Jun 21, 2004
  8. Dan Todd

    Dan Todd Active Member

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    I believe the writer of Hebrews is presenting us with a hypothetical situation.

    If it were possible to lose one's salvation - being saved a second time would not be possible - because it would mean crucifying Christ a second time!

    But if you are truly saved - it is impossible to lose your salvation.

    Romans 8:1, 35, 38-39:

    1. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,
    35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
    38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
    39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
     
    #8 Dan Todd, Jun 21, 2004
  9. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    Thanks for the reply but I am not convinced.
    The verse says "is impossible"
    "To renew"
    I am very familiar with the passage in Romans but it does not make the verse in Hebrews go away.
    Let's dig in shall we?
     
    #9 psr.2, Jun 21, 2004
  10. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    Take the verses in Rev. 13:15-17
    and tie them in with Rev.14:9-10
    and you have some folks who can lose their salvation.
    If a saved person during the trb. takes the 666 mark they lose their salvation.
    I have heard the line that a saved person would not do that but their is no scripture to back that up.
     
    #10 psr.2, Jun 21, 2004
  11. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    Luke 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
    19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
    20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

    Does that verse match this one?

    Rom. 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    The answer is no. So we have to be able to reconcile the difference or our bible has a contradiction.

    Much the same as trying to explain away Hebrews with Romans.
     
    #11 psr.2, Jun 21, 2004
  12. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Is your question really about Once Saved, Always Saved, psr.2?

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
    #12 Matt Black, Jun 21, 2004
  13. amixedupmom

    amixedupmom Guest

    you see this is a problem.

    I am but a young saved woman and, I have so much to learn. And, I'm not going to tell you that your opinions are not correct. Each time I have done that i've put my foot in my mouth. And, I really do not like doing that. I just read the verses you proposed and took what I saw. What you see is diffrent because you are not me. That is the whole point of it. I do not see what you see because we are diffrent. We have diffrent vales, diffrent upbringing's and diffrent Churchs. What you may see as specific, I might find as veague.

    I've read the entire book of John, and i'm beginning on Psalms. I've been a saved woman for 1 year and 10 months. I have a long way to go.

    [​IMG]

    God bless you and I hope you find the answers your looking for psr
     
    #13 amixedupmom, Jun 21, 2004
  14. MTA

    MTA New Member

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    John 10:27-30
    27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
    28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
    30 I and my Father are one.

    These verses from John's Gospel emphatically show the eternal security bestowed upon believers. If it were not so, mankind would be responsible for keeping that which Christ came and died for. That would effectively make our salvation contingient upon our own works which we know is impossible.

    If anyone that is truly saved could ever sink so low as to loose that perfect work wrought in their heart by the Spirit of God, it would mean that God is not capable of "keeping" that which is His. Christ died once for our sins and the application of blood once for our redemption is all that is necessary. The blood applied "once" was sufficient to deliver Israel from the effects of the Angel of Death over the firstborn in Egypt. Moses was prevented from entering the Promised Land because he disobeyed God and struck the rock "twice" when Israel thirsted, thereby ruining the type of Christ that the example represented.

    Once saved, always saved.
     
    #14 MTA, Jun 21, 2004
  15. Dan Todd

    Dan Todd Active Member

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    Our Bible has no contradictions - if it did/does - then it is worth nothing.

    We must realize that we do not have the mind of God. What seems a contradiction to our finite minds - is not to God's infinite mind.

    Now to the Luke text - The Savior was trying to get the rich young ruler to admit what he needed to admit - that he was a sinner. He did not admit that.

    Nor would he submit to the Lordship of Jesus Christ - he would not do what the Lord told him to do.
     
    #15 Dan Todd, Jun 21, 2004
  16. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    reductio ad absurdum - n. - logic
    the proof of a proposition by showing its
    opposite to be an obvious falsity
    or self-contradiction, or the disproof
    of a proposition by showing its consequences
    to be impossible or ahbsurd when carred
    to a logical conclusion.

    Hebrews 6:4-6 is of the first type.
    Propostion: It is impossible to be lost
    after being saved.
    Assume it is possible to be lost after being saved,
    then, to be saved, Jesus would have to be
    crucified again. Jesus would have to resuffer
    the the shame of being crucified.
    Jesus cannot suffer again the shame of being crucified.
    Jesus cannot be crucified again.
    People cannot be resaved.
    Therefore it is proved: People cannot be lost after being saved.

    Thus Hebrews 6:4-6 is the showpiece scripture
    of the ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED (OSAS).
    I note that most people who arge against OSAS
    like to argue the "always saved" part. In fact,
    i recommend inspecting how God sees the "once saved"
    part.

    --Ed, still lookin' in the Bible for the
    "plan of un-salvation".

    [​IMG]
     
    #16 Ed Edwards, Jun 21, 2004
  17. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Logically what does

    "He that shall endure to the end shall be saved."

    being true say about this propostion:

    "He that shall NOT endure to the end shall be NOT saved."?

    The answer is: nothing.
    The propostition

    "He that shall NOT endure to the end shall be NOT saved."?

    is NOT true just because this proposition is:

    "He that shall endure to the end shall be saved.".

    To prove the truth of

    "He that shall NOT endure to the end shall be NOT saved."?

    you have to come up with some other scripture.
    Because this is such a important topic
    upon which the salvation of BILLIONS
    of Christions hinges, i recommend not
    basing your doctrine on one and only one
    passage.

    [​IMG]
     
    #17 Ed Edwards, Jun 21, 2004
  18. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    Dan, thanks for the reply.
    You are right there are no contradictions. That was my point.
    But we must compare scripture with scripture.
    Jesus did not rebuke the man in Luke after he said he had kept the commandments.
    This was not a trick amswer from the Lord.
    Jesus plainly told him what he must do to inherit eternal life.
    If he had broken the commandments don't you think the Lord would know and tell him what he had done?
     
    #18 psr.2, Jun 21, 2004
  19. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    Matt we are discussing Hebrews.
     
    #19 psr.2, Jun 21, 2004
  20. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    Thanks for the reply Ed but I don't believe any serious student of the scriptures would buy that.
    1. Bible says "it IS impossible"
    2. "If they shall fall away."

    This is not a parable or proposition. This is not a showpiece.
    Ed please stick to scripture if we are to have any kind of bible discussion.

    Everyone is familiar with the types and phrase-ology of salvation.
    Let's discuss it from a biblical view.
     
    #20 psr.2, Jun 21, 2004
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