Help a (new)? christian

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by lewiski, May 21, 2010.

  1. lewiski

    lewiski
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    Hope this is in the right thread, if not I'm sorry. I just finished writing and I wrote a lot more than I intended, its long. But thanks to those who read it, it will be a blessing to me to hear your responses.

    I found this board in order to help me grow as a christian. I have a church that preaches the truth but does not have a bible study where questions can be asked. I feel like a burden to ask questions to fellow members after church because they are all dealing with their families and I don't want to trouble them.

    So I have come here and hope that you as fellow Christians will help me to grow in understanding. Something I need help with that's really hindered my walk is the OSAS debate. I see that this site has both views so and I currently hold a more extreme view that I will share later. I am searching for the truth and would like to hear what both sides think on my following situation.

    I was saved in 03, I thought I was saved before but I wasn't. I made a profession as a child but nothing had changed. But I started going back to church with my mother-in-law and after a few weeks I was reading my bible in my room and I got it. Jesus is real, God is real, this Bible is all going to come true and I must repent of this sin. So I did, I got saved, and I had never felt so free and in love in my life, my heart melted for Jesus. I threw all my movies away and got rid of anything that resembled sin, because I knew God hated sin, so I did also. I would cry when singing amazing grace because I knew that was me. I knew I was going to heaven and that I felt free because I believed He would never let me go and there was no way I could lose/give up my salvation. At one point I felt led to be a missionary or preacher.
    Well my love for God made me very angry with those who didn't do what the bible had asked us to do. I began down the road of judgment and self righteousness. If you weren't doing what the bible said you weren't saved and that was all there was too it.
    I soon found myself a very angry christian, a legalist is what I think its called, who was far off from God. I knew I wasn't close with God but I didn't know how to get right with him. I thought my judgment on those who weren't living how I thought was the way God wanted me to be. I would pray and pray but relief never came because I never stopped being angry. I soon found my self sinning all the time and repenting, sinning and repenting. It became a works salvation, where if I wasn't doing right God's wrath was on me and he hated me.Then I slowly started missing church, then stopped praying. Then I started watching things that I knew were wrong, and cussing and the sin just kept going.
    I never stopped believing in God or in Jesus, and I wanted my fellowship with Him restored but I didn't know how and my life became so miserable and frustrating trying to work for Gods approval that I gave up. I started my old life up, drinking and living in sin, still loving God and feeling guilty about how I was living but still continuing. If backsliding is real, I was in it.
    Skip ahead to now, 4 years away from God. I recently started going back to church and there was an over abundance of sin in my life. My wife wanted a divorce and I was happy to give her one. We were both miserable. I moved out and started dating and sleeping with other women. We ended up getting a divorce, that's when I feel God had enough. I knew in my mind that if I did not go back to my wife I would never be right with God, whatever that entailed I will never know.
    My wife had gone back to church and had been begging me to come and make things right. I did. We got remarried, we asked forgiveness and all those things that I had done wrong I was convicted to make right. Like telling my boss that I had stole from him and to ask him to forgive me; and telling those I committed adultery with that I was wrong, and asking forgiveness.
    My fellowship I felt was being restored, I wasn't working to please God, I was pleased to work because He kept me and that love moved me. I was growing very fast, and now wasn't judgmental because I saw that anyone could backslide and still be saved. Me and my wife have never been happier and more in love.
    That is until I read Hebrews 6, and got stuck in fear and that is why I'm writing you all. I believe that there are two following states that I am in and they are this.
    1. Once one is truly saved God will keep them, if they stray God will either bring them back or end their life.
    2. Once saved if you go back into sin/backslide, you can never be forgiven.
    I get this view from the entire book of Hebrews, the whole theme seems to be Paul letting the Jews know not to stray. He sums it up in 10:26 which what I got out of it is that like in the old testimate if you sinned willingly against the law you were put to death, so how much worse is it that you sin against the blood of Jesus. It also seems to reflect this at the end of 2 Peter chapter 2.
    I don't believe that you can be saved again over and over, that not what Hebrews says, once you're done you're done. I have read the view that it is talking about those who know everything about Jesus and salvation but have not done so or their testimony is false, and tho they may appear to be saved they have never accepted Jesus as savior.

    If the first is true can someone show me scripture where someone intentionally sins and God forgives after someone has accepted Jesus.
    Also, scripture where someone backslides and God forgives.

    Even if the second is true I want to live for Jesus, I love Him and if I am to be sent to hell, I would rather go obeying his commandments showing him I love him even if he is going to send me to hell. But to have the assurance of my salvation would be beyond words of joy. I love His way.
    Thank You to whoever read all of this, know that it has been relief to my heart just to write down my problems. God bless
     
  2. gb93433

    gb93433
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    In interpreting scripture always go from what is quite clear first. 1 John 5:11-13 is quite clear. You will find that salvation is gained through faith in Christ. Those who believe one can lose their salvation believe that salvation is lost by works. If one can only gain salvation through faith in Christ then how could it be lost by works.

    Titus 3:5 is another good passage.

    The historical background of Hebrews is that they were new believers going back and forth from Judaism to Christianity to whatever avoided persecution. The basic message is to live out the Christian life. It has nothing to do with salvation and being saved.
     
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    lewiski,

    You keep saying I did this, I gave, up, I accepted God, etc.
    You never say that God has done anything to you, or the Spirit convicted you of sin.

    You said this;
    Actually, in the bible a backslider is always an apostate who ends up in perdition. Hebrews 6 show sthe contrast;
    Romans 8 puts it this way;
    which realm are you in sin unto death/ or obediance unto righteousness?

    Ps, all christians sin, but no longer are bound by it.
    This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

    6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

    7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
     
  4. Salty

    Salty
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    Your profile says you are a fireman. Therefore, I would encourage you to watch the movie "FIREPROOF". It was an excellent movie and should have special meaning to you as it is built around your profession.

    But as far as backsliding, we are all guilty of that to some degree. The point is we must constantly keep our eyes on Christ - as we can not do anything in our own power.

    Remember Peter walking on the water (I think Dr. Bob was a witness there that day :smilewinkgrin:) and when Peter took his eyes off Christ he begin to sink. Over the years he continued to mature as a Christin and became a powerful force for Christ. II Peter 3: 14-17 is a wonderful passage to ponder.

    And yes your new friends here at Baptist Board will keep you and your wife in prayer.

    Salty
     
  5. HankD

    HankD
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    John 5:14
    Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more,
    lest a worse thing come unto thee.​
     
  6. lewiski

    lewiski
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    Thanks for responding. I have read through the responses and read Hebrews again and I seem to find the following. Accepting Jesus is like getting into a car with him and driving towards heaven and as long as you stay in the car God will forgive you of your sins, ask and it shall be forgiven, but the moment you step outside the car it is locked. You are no longer under the blood, you have gone your own way.
    Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

    gb93443,I read Titus and find something I find all over the new testimate, a warning
    Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.

    Iconoclast, I didn't mention God because I didn't want to get people focused on what he has done for me more of what I had done to him. I am trying to be obedient, but that doesn't make Hebrews 6:6 any less real.

    Salty, I've seen Fireproof, it was cheesy but good message. I read 2 Peter 3 and I also find another warning
    2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

    HankD, I wish you would have posted something else but I guess I would rather hear the truth than live a lie. I am then destined for hell with no hope. I am terribly sad but and depressed but not worried, there is nothing I can do to change it. God is just and so are his decisions.
     
  7. HankD

    HankD
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    Not so, you took it the wrong way because you are so distraught.

    Read the passage again, you are back in the "temple". You are the sheep that went astray and He has returned you to the flock.

    Don't try to figure out whether you are backslidden , or whatever.

    Leave your old life behind you. Serve Him.

    HankD
     
    #7 HankD, May 22, 2010
    Last edited: May 22, 2010
  8. HankD

    HankD
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    Hi again Lewiski,

    Just so you will know, I went through a similar crash.
    To make shipwreck of the faith is not to be lost but wounded in action.

    For me it was so bad that I couldn't even look at a Bible for fear and this was years after I had been saved.

    Then one morning like John Bunyan in Pilgrim's Progress, I awoke and realized it was a dream. A bad dream but a dream. He had been there all along.

    Sometime He hides Himself for a season to make us call upon Him so we can appreciate His presence all the more. But He's never really gone.

    Lamentations 3

    32 But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.
    33 For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.
    34 To crush under his feet all the prisoners of the earth,
    35 To turn aside the right of a man before the face of the most High,
    36 To subvert a man in his cause, the Lord approveth not.
    37 Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?
    38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
    39 Wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins?
    40 Let us search and try our ways, and turn again to the LORD.
    41 Let us lift up our heart with our hands unto God in the heavens.​


    HankD
     
  9. Eagle

    Eagle
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    Hey Lewiski!

    Good to have you on Board! I have been a member here since 2004. However, I have not stayed involved for that whole time. When my circumstance etc., allow, I pop back in. It is a good source for info, how others believe, and why. It will take time tho to get a good sampling. I know that you have been wrestling on your own for a while - but my advice is to relax. The holiness of God is serious business -- but so is His unfathomable Love, Patience, and Forgiveness!

    You asked for scriptural examples of this. I think of 3 off the top of my head.

    1) Moses. God said go and lead my people. After many other excuses and attempts to evade God's purpose for his life, essentially Moses response was, 'I sure wish you the best in what you are trying to do - I hope you find the right man for that.' He did this while staring at, and talking to, the Almighty God in a burning bush - mind you! God was not amused - yet He still loved Moses, forgave him, and used him greatly. (Exodus 3 & 4)

    2) Jonah. Jonah hated the Ninevites. He did not care what God thought of them, or whatever God's purpose was - Jonah wanted no part in helping God to bless or help the Ninevites. Jonah ran from God for as far and as long as he could. When it was over, and 120,000 people saved, Jonah was so angry that he would rather die than observe and be a part of this! God loved, forgave, and used Jonah thru it all.

    3) David. David is called - by God - 'a man after God's own heart.' Yet we see David the adulterer with Bath-sheba, the murderer of Uriah, and the abandoner of his fatherly obligations. His sons, for the most part, turned out badly - apparently due to his lack in their lives. These things were AFTER David had found great success in loving & serving the Lord. Still, David repented, sought, and received forgiveness. God loved him and granted all of the above.

    I know you know these stories. They are true examples of God's great love & forgiveness. Embrace them. Confidently seek the same from God. None of this diminishes the great harm you may have done to yourself and others in the meantime - and especially the hurt to God. Neither does God's loving embrace, forgiveness, and acceptance of you back into His fold, in any way diminish Him. It amplifies just how awesome he really is.

    There are consequences to our actions, and you may experience negative consequences from yours for years to come. Fully embracing God now will none-the-less absolutely offer you the chance for true fulfillment and peace in Him the rest of your days. Only God, and you, know the reality and sincerity of your decisions and requests toward Him. It is ultimately for you to accept, embrace, and move on based on these decisions/conclusions. We can only help be guides. Always keep Him in your sights - and He will not fail to see you in His.

    Many, most, all(?) of us can share similar stories, to one degree or another, of our relationship with the Lord - both prior to and/or after being saved. I hope this helps!
     
  10. lewiski

    lewiski
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    Eagle, thanks for the support and scripture, how easy it is to forget simple teaching.

    HankD, 40 Let us search and try our ways, and turn again to the LORD.
    I really like this, it gives me assurance. I also appreciate you taking the time to respond.

    I am glad to report that while I was praying with my wife over lunch today I began to weep because I knew that God had not left me, I knew it was me being unfaithful not him,I asked him to forgive me of my doubt and to lead me back to assurance. I was expecting it to be a slow restoration but thank God he has delivered me quickly. I found J.Vernon McGee commentary over the verses that were making me stumble (Hebrews 6:6, 10:26)and it is absolutely the best explanation of the verses I have ever heard. I will post the link. If anyone is having trouble with their assurance like I was listen to the prodigal pig it's in the commentary of 2 Peter 2:20. Here's the link
    http://www.thruthebible.ca/zipComplete.htm

    Thanks you all, I thank you for your help, I am happy to have place I can go to for help and to be a help for others.
     
  11. Eagle

    Eagle
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    You're welcome bro'!

    And praise the Lord! J. Vernon Mcgee is a wonderful, folksy preacher who helped me immensely in my formative years as a Christian, thru his radio ministry. I am glad he was a blessing to you today. Maybe we'll bump into each other here else wheres - or bump heads with each other? Time will tell!
     
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    Lewiski,

    I was just re-reading your original post. Let me re-examine some of your concerns ; you said;


    Your first statement is correct.Jesus seeks and saves his lost sheep.Nothing can seperate us from the love of God.
    The real question is.....has God made himself known to you? Are you born of God? If you are trusting God by a God given faith....he will keep you.

    Your second statement if not biblically accurate. You cannot be "saved" and lost at the same time. SAVED means SAVED.
    Salvation is eternal. Jn.17:3.....it is eternal life.

    The struggle comes with what is called assurance of salvation, or assurance of faith. We all are called to examine ourselves as to if we are in the faith!
    Some pastors explain it this way...continuance in the faith,is evidence of the faith. God works obediance in His sheep.We do those good works that he has commanded us to do.
    Are you a member of a solid bible teaching church now?
    Have you searched for good sermons on www.sermonaudio.com on this topic.?
    In the bible the term backslider was used of apostates. Some make a false profession in the strength of their own flesh.[as opposed to a God given faith} In time they fall away,as the flesh wears out.
    They went out,,,vs 19 is the key.
     
  13. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
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    My .02 is that you not use a website discussion forum in order to help you grow as a Christian. My advice is that you find a church with a bible study, and participate, or else begin some formal education with a doctrinally sound school.
     
  14. SolaSaint

    SolaSaint
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    My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 1 John 2:1

    Just the Israelite's would sin and repent again and again, we too have Jesus as our advocate for God knew we would fail at times. We are still fallen creatures that have weaknesses. Being saved doesn't make one perfect and unable to sin, however we are perfectly redeemed for eternity by His grace.
     
  15. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    Here's one verse that I appeal to:
    Romans 11:29 "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance."

    What God gives you he does not take back. He can make your life miserable (which seems to have happened to you), but once you are his child, you can never stop being his child. I think that sinning without feeling condemnation is evidence one is lost. If you can sin and God leaves you alone, that's when you ought to be very afraid. God disciplines his children.

    Being out of fellowship is not the same as being lost.
     
    #15 Tom Butler, Jun 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2010
  16. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
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    Lewisky...

    I highly...highly...HIGHLY...recommend brother J. Vernon McGee to you. His teaching ministry is top notch.

    God bless you as you grow in the Lord.
     

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