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Heresy #6 - The Fall

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by LadyEagle, Nov 28, 2004.

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  1. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    The above quote from another thread says this is a heresy. Do you agree or disagree? In what way is this a heresy? Scriptures, please.
     
    #1 LadyEagle, Nov 28, 2004
  2. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    This sounds like something from Ken Copeland or John Hagee.
     
    #2 Daniel David, Nov 28, 2004
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Heresy #23: Prophecy in the News...

    Oh wait. That's John Hagee also, isn't it?

    [​IMG]

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #3 Joseph_Botwinick, Nov 28, 2004
  4. Bartimaeus

    Bartimaeus New Member

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    LadyEagle,
    I am rambling through verses in my head as I read this post. Eph 3:2-3 says that we are by our nature the objects of God's divine wrath and the children of disobedience. Christ calls the Pharasee's the children of the devil because of their sin and rejection of Him. I guess the first line has SOME truth but I am not sure I would word it like that. I do not know of one text of scripture to prove that God has ever been barred from the earth. Hey, think about it "Immanuel" God with us. If God was BARRED then either Christ was not who He said he was or the writer of that excerpt denies the Deity of Christ. The Book says Satan is the god of this world. I believe he became that when God cast him out of heaven. That's my shot in the dark.
    Thanks ------Bart
     
    #4 Bartimaeus, Nov 28, 2004
  5. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    I do agree with this part - does anyone else?

    This is the part I do not agree with: " Even God was barred from having full access to earth because Adam and Eve were under His lordship when they ‘fell’. "
     
    #5 LadyEagle, Nov 28, 2004
  6. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    You agree they were given Satan's nature?
     
    #6 Daniel David, Nov 28, 2004
  7. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    Show me one statement from the Bible that says that Adam and Eve had "Divine" natures!!!
     
    #7 blackbird, Nov 28, 2004
  8. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Okay, look at this:

    2 Peter 1:[4] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

    Before Adam sinned, wouldn't he have not had a divine nature?

    And what about this:
    Genesis 1:[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

    Genesis 1:[27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him;

    Isn't God divine?

    Is someone saying after the Fall, mankind wasn't given the nature of Satan (sin and death)?

    This is what I found about Romans 5:12:

    American Standard Version
    For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one shall the many be made righteous.

    Amplified® Bible
    For just as by one man's disobedience (failing to hear, heedlessness, and carelessness) the many were constituted sinners, so by one Man's obedience the many will be constituted righteous (made acceptable to God, brought into right standing with Him).

    Contemporary English Version
    Adam disobeyed God and caused many others to be sinners. But Jesus obeyed him and will make many people acceptable to God.

    Darby English Version
    For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the many have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be constituted righteous.

    Good News Bible
    And just as all people were made sinners as the result of the disobedience of one man, in the same way they will all be put right with God as the result of the obedience of the one man.

    International Standard Version
    For just as through one man's disobedience many people were made sinners, so also through one man's obedience many people will be made righteous.

    King James Version
    For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    Young's Literal Translation
    for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous.

    Source

    :confused:
     
    #8 LadyEagle, Nov 28, 2004
  9. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    The above quote from another thread says this is a heresy. Do you agree or disagree? In what way is this a heresy? Scriptures, please. </font>[/QUOTE]First: Adam and Eve did not have divine natures and Scripture nowhere indicates they did. Adam and Eve were human and were created righteous [Ecclesiastes 7:29]. Only God has a divine nature.

    Second: Scripture does not say they took on the nature of Satan, they were only spiritually dead. However, thay did recognized they had sinned against God attempted to make a covering for their sin and tried to hide from God. Isn’t that the nature of fallen man, hide from or deny God yet attempt to cover or make atonement for their sin?

    Third: As far as God being barred from having full access to earth that makes Satan sovereign over God which is pure heresy.

    Fourth: Satan is not the god of this world! Satan can only do what God permits him to do!

    Lady Eagle, some Scripture for your consideration. I love these. [​IMG]

    Psalms 24:1, NKJV;. The earth [is] the LORD'S, and all its fullness, The world and those who dwell therein.

    Psalms 135:6, NKJV;. Whatever the LORD pleases He does, In heaven and in earth, In the seas and in all deep places.

    Psalms 50:10, [KJV]; For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
    .
    2 Chronicles 20:6, [KJV]; And said, O LORD God of our fathers, art not thou God in heaven? and rulest not thou over all the kingdoms of the heathen? and in thine hand is there not power and might, so that none is able to withstand thee?

    I love these, but there are more! [​IMG]
     
    #9 OldRegular, Nov 28, 2004
  10. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    The above quote from another thread says this is a heresy. Do you agree or disagree? In what way is this a heresy? Scriptures, please. </font>[/QUOTE]First: Adam and Eve did not have divine natures and Scripture nowhere indicates they did. Adam and Eve were human and were created righteous [Ecclesiastes 7:29]. Only God has a divine nature.

    Second: Scripture does not say they took on the nature of Satan, they were only spiritually dead. However, thay did recognized they had sinned against God attempted to make a covering for their sin and tried to hide from God. Isn’t that the nature of fallen man, hide from or deny God yet attempt to cover or make atonement for their sin?

    Third: As far as God being barred from having full access to earth that makes Satan sovereign over God which is pure heresy.

    Fourth: Satan is not the god of this world! Satan can only do what God permits him to do!

    Lady Eagle, some Scripture for your consideration. I love these. [​IMG]

    Psalms 24:1, NKJV;. The earth [is] the LORD'S, and all its fullness, The world and those who dwell therein.

    Psalms 135:6, NKJV;. Whatever the LORD pleases He does, In heaven and in earth, In the seas and in all deep places.

    Psalms 50:10, [KJV]; For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
    .
    2 Chronicles 20:6, [KJV]; And said, O LORD God of our fathers, art not thou God in heaven? and rulest not thou over all the kingdoms of the heathen? and in thine hand is there not power and might, so that none is able to withstand thee?

    I love these, but there are more! [​IMG]
     
    #10 OldRegular, Nov 28, 2004
  11. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Copeland!
     
    #11 OldRegular, Nov 28, 2004
  12. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    Hagee is the one who says the Jews of the OT were saved by works---but that's another "Barrel of Monkey's!!!"

    If the Russians were as bad an aim with their Nuclear Missiles aimed at us---as Hagee is in prophecy---we don't have nothin' to worry about! The Russians will miss everytime!!
     
    #12 blackbird, Nov 29, 2004
  13. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Luke 4:5] And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
    [6] And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
    [7] If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
    [8] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

    So, if "for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it" was not true, how was this a temptation for Jesus Christ? Wouldn't Jesus have said, "get thee behind me, you liar?"

    :confused:
     
    #13 LadyEagle, Nov 29, 2004
  14. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    LE

    I can't put words in Jesus Christ's mouth though many people attempt to do so. We must assume that Jesus Christ said what He intended. However, as for the fact that Satan is a liar, Jesus Christ tells us elsewhere:

    John 8:44 [KJV];Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    The Bible does not contradict itself so you must reconcile the passage you quoted with the one above including those in my original response, shown below, to your query.

    Psalms 24:1, NKJV;. The earth [is] the LORD'S, and all its fullness, The world and those who dwell therein.

    Psalms 135:6, NKJV;. Whatever the LORD pleases He does, In heaven and in earth, In the seas and in all deep places.

    Psalms 50:10, [KJV]; For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

    2 Chronicles 20:6, [KJV]; And said, O LORD God of our fathers, art not thou God in heaven? and rulest not thou over all the kingdoms of the heathen? and in thine hand is there not power and might, so that none is able to withstand thee?

    I really do love these and I am not confused.
    [​IMG]
     
    #14 OldRegular, Nov 29, 2004
  15. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    First, no one can "bar" God from anything anywhere.

    Second, if A&E had had a divine nature, they wouldn't have sinned. While every saved person has a righteous nature, obeying God from eagerness rather than from mere duty, we do not have a divine nature; we're still capable of sin.

    Yes, Satan can do on earth only what God allows him to do. He is a prince, not a king.(prince of the power of the air)
     
    #15 robycop3, Nov 29, 2004
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