Hi I am new to the boards, and have a question?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by zrs6v4, Nov 18, 2007.

  1. zrs6v4

    zrs6v4
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    I am new here to the board and wanted to say hi. and If I am posting in the wrong section please guide me to the right one.I am a christan and am 22 years old and have been going to church since I was little. I was saved when I was 11 and never really lived like I should up until a couple of months ago when I went to church and it hit me that I needed to make some changes and stop ignoring the Lord. So I have been learning more than ever and following the lord like I never have before. Well to make a long story short I have been talking to friends and family about church and trying to get them to go with me and explaing things the best I can. I am the type of person that has to say everything that I know or I wont feel good about my talks with non-christians. So as I am learning new things and new followings I have been starting to write a book/journal on mostly the basics, my testimony, and my experiences for a new christian. I am doing this for My family and friends mainly and hopfully it make touch others in the future as well. I am not sure where its going to go but I trust that the lord will guide me in the right direction. Anyway I have had this bothering me for the past 3 weeks or so and it is about the trinity.
    My understanding is that God is the Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. Which I know means that there is one god and only one god, and that we will not understand if God is Jesus until we die b/c it could be beyond our understanding.I believe every word the bible says and dont doubt it a bit but I have to say that this confuses me a little and until I clear it up its going to bother me. here are my questions
    what confuses me is the connection of God and Jesus, not that Jesus is gods son and god sent jesus to die on the cross for all of mans sin, but the part where the trinity states that God is the father and the Son "Jesus"? Does this actually mean God is Jesus, is there two different beings God and Jesus, or is it one of those things that is beyond our understand and we will not understand until we go to heaven?

    I also have always had the impression that we can pray to God anyway we like. I personally talk to him like its a normal conversation. What did it for me today is that everytime someone prayed in church, at the end of there prayer they said "In Jesus name we pray, Amen". What confused me there is that I always thought that we can pray to Jesus or God (whatever name we think of him as) and he will listen either way. Is that just a figure of speach or does the bible say we actually have to pray through Jesus?

    Thanks
     
  2. mcdirector

    mcdirector
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    Welcome to both you and your questions!

    In my limited understanding I think we have to accept that God is one and three persons. Part of that is a mystery. Just like we see time in a linear fashion and He sees time from the beginning to the end all at once. I don't understand that, I have to accept that it is. If I try to make sense of it in my limited understanding, it baffles me, so I quit and just accept it.

    Maybe one of the theologians can put it in better perspective ;)

    Bitsy
     
  3. zrs6v4

    zrs6v4
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    yea I agree and I kind of gathered it that way to and time was a good comparison, I like that. well that does clear things up a little, and I appreciate your help. I am with you I dont question anything that God does or the way things are. I am just making sure that I am not missing anything and dont mislead anyone else if I get that question from anyone.
     
  4. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
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    It's good that you can hold on to a firm belief in the validity and Truth of God's Word even though something about it confuses you. That's very good.

    There are things in the bible that puzzle me, too. But I know that God's Word is perfect and is the perfect Truth. It's not so much me doubting the bible when I get confused, but me doubting my interpretation of it and understanding of it.

    As far as the Trinity is concerned, there is none of us who will completely grasp it until we meet God face to face. I take comfort in that in knowing that our understanding will one day be complete.

    I know that God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one and in complete unity and yet They have differences, too. When I pray, I pray to God the Father, in the Name of Jesus and by the power of the Holy Spirit.

    Yet sometimes I talk to Jesus. I will whisper, "Thank You, Jesus" or I will tell Him thank you for dying on the cross. I sing "Happy Birthday" to Him on Christmas mornings when I wake up and am lying in my bed.

    And sometimes I talk to the Holy Spirit. I ask Him to convict me of my sin....that is one of His purposes....and I thank Him for convicting me of sin. But it's God the Father that I confess my sins to and ask forgiveness from - in the Name of Jesus.

    The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are supernaturally One. God in Three Persons.

    I can't give you any detailed umderstanding other than what it means to me.
     
  5. Steven2006

    Steven2006
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    Welcome, these verses might help a little.
     
  6. Amy.G

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    Welcome!

    The Trinity is hard for our human minds to comprehend. It is a mystery in terms of "full" understanding. It is something we have accept by faith. Although, since we were created in God's image, I think we can have a small amount of understanding when we look at ourselves as beings with a mind, a body and a spirit. All separate, yet one in essence.

    Regarding praying in Jesus name, that means that we are asking God for something by the authority of Jesus.

    It's much like a police officer who makes arrests in the "name", or the authority of the law.

    We also pray in the name of Jesus as recognition of Him as our Lord and Savior and the only One by whom we are able to approach the Father.

    Hope this makes sense. :)
     
  7. Martin

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    ==Welcome :wavey:

    ==I think the first part of your statement is right on target but then you make a turn. You stated that you understand that "God is the Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit". The Son is Jesus, so Jesus is God. Read John 1:1-18 in a modern translation such as the New International Version or the New Living Translation.

    ==God, as you stated, is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Three Persons, One Being.

    ==One Being, but it is difficult for us to grasp this. I think this is one of those matters where we have to confess our limited abilities. God is far above us in everyway. There is simply no way we can expect to understand everything about Him. Therefore we must be prepared to know that there are things about God that we can never fully understand.

    Read Romans 11:33-36, Isaiah 40, 55:8-9.

    ==We are told, in Scripture, to pray in Jesus' Name (John 14:12-15, 16:23-24, etc). Since Jesus is the only way to the Father (John 14:6) it makes sense that our access to the Father is through Jesus. Now, does that mean we have to close each prayer with "in Jesus Name"? I doubt it. As long as we ask in His Name, and in His Will, it does not matter how we word it. For example some people, and I have done this myself, open their prayer in Jesus Name (etc). Don't stress yourself out over getting the exact wording "right". As you grow in your Christian walk God the Holy Spirit will help you pray and teach you how to pray (Romans 8:26-27, John 14:16-27, 16:13). It may also be helpful to read the prayers that are in Scripture.
     
    #7 Martin, Nov 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2007
  8. Alex Quackenbush

    Alex Quackenbush
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    There is one God who manifests Himself (reveals Himself) in three persons. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

    How God and why God exists and expresses Himself this way simply is NOT stated in the Bible. The mechanics of how it is accomplished is not provided in the Bible. It simply deals with this Divine reality as a fact. And yes, in eternity future you will learn far more than you can imagine now, so such questions I have no doubt will disappear.

    One thing you will learn as you study the Trinity is that God the Son, while perfectly God and the expression of God has certain functions within the Godhead as does the Father and the Holy Spirit. And with regard to their functions, there is an administrative subordination. That means, like Christ said, he came to do the will of His Father the second person of the Godhead, Jesus, is subordinate to God the Father with regard to executing the plan of God while equal in person/essence because of course, He IS GOD.

    And God the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the will of God the Son as Christ revealed that HE would send the comforter.

    Remember, being subordinate administratively never means subordinate in person. It merely is an organizational structure to accomplish a task. The plan of God is accomplished through the work of God manifested in the persons and work of Godhead, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

    God is merciful and patient toward us. In our doctrinal ignorance there is no doubt we do many things that God sees and hears, yet because we are His children He knows our hearts and our earnest desires and responds. That does not mean it is okay to do things anyway you want always and resist correcting erring practices and beliefs.

    And in prayer there is clear teaching regarding how we are to pray. The teaching of prayer as revealed in Scripture, both in the OT (Old Testament) and particularly for us church age believers, the NT (New Testament) we are taught by our Lord to pray to "The Father". It is the first person of the Godhead we are taught to appeal to in prayer and offer our prayers, supplications and petitions to.

    We pray "in the name of Jesus" because that is the source of our authority. Belonging to Christ we are given the freedom and AUTHORITY necessary to come to boldly come to the thrown of grace.

    Think about it this way. When a court orders something it must have a judge's signature to authenticate it and have authority. If you come in your own name you cannot represent the state, you only represent yourself and are without authority. When you come before God the Father, you carry the name of Christ, God Himself as the signature that authorizes your prayers. Hence, it is in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ we pray to the Father through the empowering and leading of God the Holy Spirit.
     
    #8 Alex Quackenbush, Nov 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2007
  9. Allan

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    Welcome to the BB! :wavey:

    The trinity? It is something that can be understood but not something we can fully grasp. Why? Because it deals with the very nature of God who is an infinite being beyond our understanding which is finite.

    That being said, yes, we can understand it as much as God has revealed to us that we might comprehend what is necessary.

    Here is what a website http://www.carm.org/doctrine.htm, just scroll down till you see the articles on the Trinity. There is alot of great info in there, like this:
     
  10. Bro. Travis

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    I hope this makes sense to you. As far as the Trinity is concerned think about it like this. If you have your bible in front of you or any book closed up look at it and ask your self how many books are in front of me? The answer should be one. Then ask yourself how many dimensions does the book have? The answer is three the length, height and depth but still one book and so that is the way you have view God. He is one God with three dimensions.

    As far as your question about praying, the bible teaches their is one mediator between God and man and that is Christ Jesus the Lord. The only way to the Father is through the Son. So you can pray to the Father but it must be through Jesus. If you take Jesus out then you have no access to the Father.


    Hope that helps

    Bro. Travis
     
  11. Pipedude

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    "Folk religion" is a persistent characteristic of humans, even Christian humans. We start doing something, we get used to it, and we never stop to ask whether or not it is biblical. It's just our tradition.

    The Bible does not teach that answering prayer is a role of the Son or the Spirit. If someone decides he likes the Son more than he likes the Father (sort of like favoring George over John or Paul) and starts praying to the Son, and it feels good, he seldom stops to ask whether or not he is worshipping biblically or just making up his religion as he goes.

    One current outgrowth of this is voicing prayers to the Son and then saying "We ask this in your name, amen." What kind of gobbledygook is that?

    Biblically, prayer is offered to the Father through the Son by the Spirit. Praise or worship is due to all three.
     
  12. skypair

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    zrs6v4 -- welcome to BB :wavey:

    You have picked one of the hardest questions in all of Christendom to ask about. I am going to offer the simplest explanation that you will ever hear and please don't forget it. It will come in handy in opening many other mysteries to you.

    God created man in His own image. What was God's image? God was 3-in-one. That is Father, Spirit, and Son. Likewise, we are created 3-in-one: soul, spirit, and body. We are 3 "persons" in one also (ex: our souls may be saved but our bodies act like a whole difference person sometimes, Rom 7:20-23. Capice?)

    Now the soul of God is the Father, the Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit, and the Body of God is Christ.
    God that?

    So what are these 3 aspects? The soul is the conscience -- the "ruler" of what is right and wrong. Indeed, in our conscience is the awareness of both God and self as being good and evil respectively.

    The spirit both of God and man is the mind, emotions, and will of each respectively. It is God's Holy Spirit communicating with our spirit that draws us to Christ and changes our will to be in accordance with His at the moment of salvation.

    Obviously, the body of God and man is our physical frame.

    This leads to another interesting point -- we must be saved soul (justified in eternity by God), spirit (sanctified daily in our spirits by the indwelling Holy Spirit of the new covenant), and body (glorified by Christ at the rapture). So that in just the reverse of the fall of Adam, we must be restored by God --- in our souls we are made alive instantly, in our spirits we grow in sanctification progressively, and in our bodies we are made alive eventually.


    Now on that other issue -- praying in the name of Christ tells God that we have considered our petitions in the light of His will and we believe them to be what Christ would want or do. If we pray anything according to His will, we know we have our petitions.

    skypair
     
    #12 skypair, Nov 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2007

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