Hillary Offers Little Change to Bush's Policies

Discussion in 'Politics' started by KenH, Oct 11, 2007.

  1. KenH

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    Hillary Offers Little Change to Bush's Policies
    Monday , October 08, 2007​
    By Radley Balko

    Polls show Hillary Clinton has now opened up a striking 33-point lead over Barack Obama in the race for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination. The latest poll shows that likely Democratic primary voters favor her in every major policy area. Clinton also raised $27 million in campaign contributions in the last quarter, adding to an already-significant lead over her Democratic rivals.

    For seven years, the left has been up in arms about President Bush's aggressive foreign policy, his secrecy, his partisanship, and his expansive claims on executive power. It's odd, then, that they're prepared to nominate Hillary Clinton to carry the party into the 2008 elections....

    Then there is Hillary Clinton on the issues. Cato Institute President Ed Crane recently wrote a piece for the Financial Times pointing out that when you strip away the partisan coating, Mrs. Clinton's grandiose, big-government vision is really no different than that envisioned by the neoconservatives so loathed by the left. Clinton, remember, not only voted for the Iraq war, she still hasn't conceded she was wrong to do so, and has made no promise to end it any time soon.

    In fact, the L.A. Times reported last week that Clinton has refused to commit even to pulling U.S. troops from Iraq by 2013, which, if elected, would be the end of her first term. TV journalist Ted Kopel recently told NPR that Clinton has admitted the U.S. would still have troops in Iraq at the end of her second term.

    The 1990s, remember, weren't exactly a decade of peace. Bill Clinton ordered more U.S. military interventions than any other post-WWII administration...

    As a libertarian, it will at least be entertaining to watch the left squirm while defending Hillary Clinton's "right" to employ the same executive powers and engage in the same foreign policy blunders they now argue that President Bush has superceded his authority in claiming. And it'll be equally fun to watch the right cry foul when President Hillary claims the same powers they have so vigorously fought to claim for President Bush. The problem, of course, is that entertaining as all that might be, an increasingly imperial presidency isn't good for our republic....

    And judging by her political career and recent voting record, they should also realize that even if they succeed in electing Hillary Clinton to the White House, it's likely that the only real resulting change in Washington will be that come 2009, we'll merely have a Democrat pursuing the same misguided policies.

    - rest at www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,300196,00.html
     
  2. church mouse guy

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    More Libertarian stuff kissing up to the Democrats and pushing the GOP back. It just shows you, Ken, that you are closer to the Democrats than to anyone else. Pretty soon, you will admit that you are just a disgruntled liberal.
     
  3. KenH

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    How is an opinion piece attacking Hillary Clinton's stances on issues "kissing up to the Democrats"?

    There is no chance of that happening. But I will tell you that if I was going to stop being a libertarian after being one all of these decades I certainly would not want to be a "conservative" like many posters on this board are.
     
    #3 KenH, Oct 11, 2007
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2007
  4. church mouse guy

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    Come on, Ken, that Libertarian stuff is pure liberalism. It is the Democrats who are against the war, and we all know that Hillary will view her election as a mandate for withdrawal. To say that the Democrats are just like the GOP, is Libertarian shorthand for the nutty idea that the two parties are just the same and only the Libertarians are different. The only problem with the Libertarians is that they are just too different. The seem to be big money people who want to live and let live if it means that they have to spend a penny to stop some sort of vice that they themselves are not addicted to.

    Tell us, Ken, aren't you really a New Deal Democrat who became disenchanted because heaven on earth was a little slow in being installed?
     
  5. KenH

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    Nope. I believe in the personal freedoms that Democrats used to support and I believe in the economic freedoms that Republicans used to support.
     
  6. church mouse guy

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    Yeah, you believe in yesterday. And when you get all done, the personal freedoms that the Democrats used to support are things like legalizing booze again and then legalizing abortions. And you really want a Democrat foreign policy that says that only Democrats can lead the nation in the time of war and the only good wars are the ones where Democrats are in charge of the White House: World War I, World War II, Korea, Viet Nam, and the Balkans.

    The Libertarians want the ineffective government of the Democrats but they don't want to pay the taxes that the Democrats charge. The Libertarian platform most resembles the Democrats: abortion on demand, same-sex marriage, legalized drugs, legalized prostitution, and a generally permissive society.
     
  7. KenH

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    Nope. You are wrong, cmg. For example: www.l4l.org.
     
  8. church mouse guy

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    Ha! ha! Now you are quoting a minority within the Libertarian Party. I imagine that there is even an internet site of Democrats for Life, also, along the same lines as the one that you link. That is just come on for suckers who think that Libertarians are not firm in their stand of abortion on demand, same-sex marriage, legalized drugs, and legalized prostitution. You have the same foreign policy as the Democrats do and the same domestic policy as the Democrats do in the Libertarian Party, Ken. :laugh:
     
  9. KenH

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    I have no problem with legalizing drugs or prostitution. The leading Democrats are just as much for foreign adventurism as the leading Republicans. I do not support foreign adventurism. The leading Democrats are just as much for expanding the scope and reach of the federal government as the leading Republicans. I do not support expanding the scope and reach of the federal government.
     
  10. poncho

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    Freedom really scares you doesn't it CMG? Don't sweat it buddy the republicans and democrats all want the same thing. Money power and control and they just about got it all now. You keep sticking with either of them take yer pick and they'll save ya from a generally permissive society generally speaking and all it will cost you is that scarey ole freedom. But the good news is you're getting a brand new Big Brother that'll look out for ya to replace it! :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #10 poncho, Oct 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 11, 2007
  11. church mouse guy

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    What I don't get about you and Ken, Poncho, and the other Libertarians, is that they are for legalizing drugs, for legalizing prostitution, for abortion on demand, for state lotteries I suppose, and for same-sex marriage. I just can't see how you can reconcile that with Christianity--to say, for example, that sodomites can marry. That sounds to me like pure modernism that doesn't care about people in the ditch. That is the reason that most Libertarians seem to be people with some personal wealth. I think that your platform, Poncho and Ken, is pure modernistic materialism.
     
  12. KenH

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    I am for legalizing drugs. I am for legalizing prostitution. Just because something is a bad habit or a sin does not mean that the government should criminalize it. Do you think that the government should criminalize the sin of gluttony, cmg? Well, do you? The government has limited resources to use in law enforcement and I want those spent on apprehending those who commit violent crimes against other people, not going after the actions of consenting adults.

    I am a pro-life libertarian and would like to see Roe v. Wade overturned. So stop bearing false witness about me by saying that I am in favor of abortion on demand. Okay, brother?

    I am opposed to homosexual marriage. So stop bearing false witness about me by saying that I am in favor of homosexual marriage. Okay, brother?

    If a state constitutional amendment makes it on the November 2008 ballot in Arkansas I may very well vote for it and I may very well participate in it if it passes. I have no more of a problem with gambling in moderation than I do with drinking alcoholic beverages in moderation. I don't drink alcoholic beverages but reading the posts by "conservatives" on this board may yet drive me to do so. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  13. church mouse guy

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    I never said you personally, Ken--I said Libertarians, meaning the party. And I told the truth when I said that the Libertarian Party stood for abortion on demand, same-sex marriage, legalized drugs, legalized prostitution, and probably state lotteries. It just seems that Libertarians care nothing about people caught in these life styles, although I suppose that Libertarians don't want drugs sold in their front yards and don't want prostitutes in their front yards, etc. I just can't see how as a Christian a person can turn his back on people caught in destructive life styles as you, Ken, and Poncho, and all the other Libertarians do.
     
  14. poncho

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    Scuze me CMG I gotta :laugh: at that one.

    What I don't get is why you don't get that I don't hold to everything the libertarians do. I've got a pretty good conservative streak too ya know. Not that "kill em all let Halliburton sort em out" kind though.
     
  15. KenH

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    Again, I must ask that you please stop bearing false witness about me, cmg. Okay, brother? I have never said that I, or any other person, should turn his/her back on someone in trouble.

    I am not a socialist. I don't believe that the solution to personal problems and struggles is a government program. The churches and individual Christians and other concerned citizens are the ones who should be helping those in need - especially when it comes to morals.
     
  16. KenH

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    CMG,

    Do you want the government to criminalize the sin of gluttony? Please belly up to the bar and answer.
     
    #16 KenH, Oct 11, 2007
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2007
  17. church mouse guy

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    I don't know why you call yourself conservative, Poncho. Maybe you should define the term. The Libertarians are liberals on social issues by any yardstick, and they agree with the Democrats on foreign policy in that they think that we should withdraw from the "illegal" war in Iraq. I don't think that being in right field automatically qualifies you, Poncho, as a conservative. I think that you are so far out in right field that you are invisible with Windows Vista.
     

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