his blood I will require at your hand?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by CarpentersApprentice, Jul 7, 2014.

  1. CarpentersApprentice

    CarpentersApprentice
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    What does "his blood I will require at your hand" mean?

    Ezekiel 3:18. "When I say to the wicked, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn him or speak out to warn the wicked from his wicked way that he may live, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand."

    Ezekiel 3:20. "(When) a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I place an obstacle before him, he will die; since you have not warned him, he shall die in his sin, and his righteous deeds which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand."

    Ezekiel 33:6. "(If) the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman’s hand."

    Ezekiel 33:8. "When I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require from your hand."
     
  2. convicted1

    convicted1
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    We are commanded to preach the gospel to everyone. We have no clue who are sheep and who are goats.


    These are verses pertaining to us witnessing/preaching to everyone, imo...
     
  3. kyredneck

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    I take it in the same context as Paul used it:

    18 And when they were come to him, he said unto them, Ye yourselves know, from the first day that I set foot in Asia, after what manner I was with you all the time,
    19 serving the Lord with all lowliness of mind, and with tears, and with trials which befell me by the plots of the Jews;
    20 how I shrank not from declaring unto you anything that was profitable, and teaching you publicly, and from house to house,
    21 testifying both to Jews and to Greeks repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
    22 And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there:
    23 save that the Holy Spirit testifieth unto me in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.
    24 But I hold not my life of any account as dear unto myself, so that I may accomplish my course, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
    25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I went about preaching the kingdom, shall see my face no more.
    26 Wherefore I testify unto you this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
    27 For I shrank not from declaring unto you the whole counsel of God.
    28 Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. Acts 20

    I think Paul was setting himself up as an example for the bishops at Ephesus to follow, to do their duty and declare the whole counsel of God. Whatever the consequences are/were in "his blood I will require at your hand", it would be temporal consequences and not eternal.
     
  4. JeremyV

    JeremyV
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    We are held responsible for the lost of we had an opportunity to warn them and did not. I take this to refer to our rewards in heaven. This does not mean that we also will be lost, but that our rewards will be diminished. Our salvation may be sure but our rewards are not.

    "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."
    (1Co 3:11-15)
     
  5. kyredneck

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    Ezekiel 33:6. "(If) the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman’s hand."

    Paul, in his office as a prophet (as Ezekiel), saw 'the sword coming' and warned his audience:

    28 Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood.
    29 I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock;
    30 and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.
    31 Wherefore watch ye, remembering that by the space of three years I ceased not to admonish every one night and day with tears. Acts 20

    This 'great apostasy/falling away' came upon that generation contemporary with Paul, Christ, and the other apostles.

    Peter, also as prophet, warned his audience of 'the sword coming' upon that generation:

    And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2:40

    And it shall be, that every soul that shall not hearken to that prophet, shall be utterly destroyed from among the people. Acts 3:23

    Christ, also as prophet, warned his audience of 'the sword coming' upon that generation:

    3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all in like manner perish.
    5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Lu 13

    It was the prophet's most earnest duty to deliver the message God had given them to deliver.
     
  6. Reformed

    Reformed
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    It means that those who failed to act as their brother's keeper will be culpable for their brother falling into sin and any subsequent punishment.
     
  7. convicted1

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    There have been some very solid posts, imo....


    :thumbsup:
     
  8. kyredneck

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    You're saying the burden of other's eternal destiny is upon us, the Christians? Our omissions or commissions can send one to hell for an infinity of torment and we will still go on to heaven regardless?
     
    #8 kyredneck, Jul 7, 2014
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  9. pinoybaptist

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    Short n :thumbsup: Good.
     
  10. pinoybaptist

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    Zactly what he means. And it's part of today's pop gospel.
     
  11. kyredneck

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    What Reformed posted is true, but there's other passages that would better apply our 'ordinary' Christian duties than these from Ezekiel. I'm inclined to believe the application is more specific to those chosen by God for a specific task. On another note/tangent of thought:

    Compare:

    Ezekiel 3:18. "When I say to the wicked, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn him or speak out to warn the wicked from his wicked way that he may live, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand."

    Ezekiel 3:20. "(When) a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I place an obstacle before him, he will die; since you have not warned him, he shall die in his sin, and his righteous deeds which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand."

    Ezekiel 33:6. "(If) the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman’s hand."

    Ezekiel 33:8. "When I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require from your hand."

    With:

    21 He said therefore again unto them, I go away, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sin: whither I go, ye cannot come.
    24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for except ye believe that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. Jn 8

    ...does 'die in your sins' imply eternal consequences, i.e., going to hell?

    I don't think so.
     
    #11 kyredneck, Jul 7, 2014
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  12. kyredneck

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    Yeah, that's the sense I get also, maybe he'll provide more comment.
     
    #12 kyredneck, Jul 7, 2014
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  13. kyredneck

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    Jonah was chosen by God for a specific task but he attempted to flee from his task and God brought the blood of the Ninevites upon him for three days in the belly of a great fish.

    To me it's just that simple.
     
    #13 kyredneck, Jul 7, 2014
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  14. JeremyV

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    No, I am saying that it is our burden to warn them. Are we held culpable to certain degree? That is certainly what the verses in question seem to imply.

    First, nothing we do sends anyone to eternal punishment. Each man is responsible for their own choices. However, how can we expect them to make the right choice if they do not first hear the gospel? As Paul wrote:

    "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"
    (Rom 10:13-15)

    Even so, hearing does not necessarily lead to believing, as Paul continued:

    "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."
    (Rom 10:16-18)

    They must hear in order to believe, is it not our responsibility to speak so that they may be able to hear? Sure, they may go on to disbelieve (as often happens) but at least we have done our part.

    I am very confused with this argument. In both the Ezekiel quotes and the John quotes that you provide, a term is used that amounts to dying in sin. It seems obvious to me from the context that the quotes from John do in fact refer to eternal punishment. How else are we to take a person dying without believing in Jesus?

    With this the case we should conclude that the same phrase used in Ezekiel refers to the same thing, yet you conclude that this is not a reference to eternal consequences. Could you explain your position further?

    Except that as far as I can remember, the Bible never calls what Jonah went through bringing the blood of the Ninevites upon him. Even so, I do not see the disparity. God called Noah to preach to the Ninevites. Are we not also called to share the gospel with unbelievers? If Jonah was punished for his disobedience, won't we?
     
  15. kyredneck

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    In keeping with and not breaking the underlying continuity within the scriptures, I hold that 'die in your sins' carries the same meaning from Ezekiel to John, just as 'his blood will I require of thee' carries the same meaning from Ezekiel to Paul as used in Acts 20.

    If the righteous backslides and repents not, do they go to hell?

    If you're one that holds that Christ's atonement does not cover the sin of unbelief then I understand your confusion.

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2094414#post2094414
     
    #15 kyredneck, Jul 8, 2014
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  16. JeremyV

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    I think I am beginning to understand your position. If I understand you right, it is your contention that all of these verses refer to the backslidden saved. I can certainly understand this to a point since much of what has been quoted from Ezekiel has been about the "righteous" who have turned away and done evil. However, verses like Ezekiel 3:18-19 do not refer to the righteous but to the wicked:

    "When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul."
    (Eze 3:18-19)

    Besides this, I must question if the references to righteous men refer to those that are saved. It is not our righteousness that saves us but the grace of God.

    Again, in Acts 20, it seems clear to me that the "you all" that Paul speaks of is not the church there but all the people too whom he has been preaching. Yes, he is specifically speaking to the elders of the church at Ephesus but much of what he says seems to refer to a larger scope then the elders or even the whole church at Ephesus.

    In Acts 20:18 Paul says that from the first day he entered Asia he had been with them at all times. This cannot refer to only the church at emphasis as he would not have been in Ephesus the first day nor did he stay there the entire time he was in Asia. He was constantly among those that he was preaching to though.

    In Acts 20:25 Paul declares that "you all" are those that he has been preaching the kingdom of God to. This surely does not only refer to the Church at Ephesus but to all the he preached to in Asia.

    As such when Paul says that he is pure from the blood of all in Acts 20:26, I believe he is referring not to believers but to everyone in Asia.


    It all depends on if the "righteous" have received the grace of God. If so, then no.

    Christ's atonement covers all sins (save for the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit) of those that are covered by the blood of Christ.
     
  17. kyredneck

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    ....and that's your prerogative to disagree with it.

    16 But arise, and stand upon thy feet: for to this end have I appeared unto thee, to appoint thee a minister and a witness both of the things wherein thou hast seen me, and of the things wherein I will appear unto thee;
    17 delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom I send thee,
    18 to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.
    19 Wherefore, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: Acts 26

    20 how I shrank not from declaring unto you anything that was profitable, and teaching you publicly, and from house to house,
    26 Wherefore I testify unto you this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
    27 For I shrank not from declaring unto you the whole counsel of God.
    28 Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. Acts 20

    Paul was not disobedient to his calling, he shrank not from his duties as a minster and a witness, he was pure from the blood of all men, and he is exhorting the bishops God had appointed at Ephesus to not shrink from their duty likewise. Jonah on the other hand....

    1 Now the word of Jehovah came unto Jonah the son of Amittai, saying,
    2 Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.
    3 But Jonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of Jehovah… Jonah 1

    ....Jonah was disobedient and shrank back from doing his duty as a prophet.

    Just sayin'....
     
    #17 kyredneck, Jul 8, 2014
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  18. JeremyV

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    But are we not all called to share the gospel? If so are we not also held to the same standards as these?
     
  19. CarpentersApprentice

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    From the comments so far I am still not clear as to the meaning of the subject phrase.

    Is God telling Ezekiel that if he does not warn the people (both the wicked and the righteous) of their sin, then he will be eternally punished?

    Thanks for the help with this phrase.
     
  20. kyredneck

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    Ah, I forgot how irrelevant audience relevance is to you.

    You go ahead, expound and add to it and make it to include anything and apply to anyone that you think it should. Make it mean what you want it to mean, as if Christianity has not already had enough of that.

    I'll stick to originalism as held by Hodge and Bork as my first rule of interpretation.
     

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