His Church out of the churches

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Seth3, Nov 22, 2004.

  1. Seth3

    Seth3
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    I found this online I copy pasted it here as a topic starter. This is put here for discussion purposes only. I love interesting articles that provoke thought. I love to hear what others say as well.



    HIS CHURCH OUT OF THE
    CHURCHES




    Dearly Beloved Brethren,

    "....And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter and upon this ROCK(revelation of Jesus as the Christ of God)I will BUILD(make)'MY CHURCH', and the GATES(wiles and wisdom) of hell shall not prevail against it ......" (Matthew 16:18)

    We welcome you once again to this 'His Voice through the Web'. After our last meeting, there has been this indication to pass across this small pamphlet to you before what His next burden for us will be. Be blessed with it and PLEASE FEEL ABSOLUTELY FREE TO PASS IT ON TO OTHERS, THAT THEY ALSO MAY RUN WITH IT.

    We shall begin this article by trying to show first of all what the church is not, and then progress to what the church is.

    The church is not a literal building or edifice displaying the ingenuity of the architect or the builder, neither is it a wooden or mud hut meant to be a temporary shelter until finances improve. It is not a group of people identifiable by a trade name/mark. It is not a group of people who gather under a human leader who gives them rules and regulations to follow and programmes to execute in his interest. It is not a group of people brought together for financial gain, rivalry or the desire to make a name, build an empire and gain affluence, recognition and importance. It is neither a denomination with branches under it nor a corporation; not a limited liability company. It is not a group that can be recognized by what they wear or what they do not wear.

    If the church were any of the above, it would mean that there are as many churches as there are groups or denominations. Is Christ divided! (I Corinthians 1:13) Then, too, the term "my church", "our church", "St. So and So Church" or "the church of So and So" would be in order.

    WHAT THEN IS THE CHURCH? Until Matthew 16:18, the word "CHURCH" is not found in the Bible. The word and what it stood for came through the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God. He is the first begotten of the dead, the Alpha and Omega, our Saviour who washed us from our sins in His blood and made us Priests and Kings unto God and His Father (Rev. 1:5-6). He declared that He would build "HIS CHURCH". He came to build and to establish it. The church therefore is HIS. The church is a spiritual building made up of living stones of which Jesus Christ Himself is the chief corner stone (Ephesians 2:20).

    The church is a people; a people for His Name(Acts 15:14). Paul calls it "church of the first born who are written in heaven..." It is made up of all TRUE believers of the church age. It is the body of Christ, for He is Head over it - through His Spirit (Ephesians 2:21-22). It is one flesh with the Lord and therefore she is His bride (Ephesians 5:31-32). She is also God's house.

    The church is so important to God that He has committed His purpose to her. It is by and through the church that He will unveil and carry out His plans concerning the nations. The church is God's representative on earth. As salt of the earth, she should give flavour to the earth. As light, she should manifest by her life and teaching the principles of truth received from God for the blessing of humanity. The brightness of her character should reveal the evil deeds of men. She is to declare openly that which was done in darkness. The position of the church on earth is that of an ambassador (Philippians 3:20). An ambassador does only the will of his home government. God has vested on the church the authority to rule the nations. This assignment can only be carried out by the church that serves His purpose, making full appropriation of the blessing of Christ's death and resurrection. In the same manner, she is to die to the world and the world to her. The completed and glorious church shall share in God's throne of all majesty and splendour.

    Before our Lord's ascension, He told His disciples to wait in Jerusalem until they receive power. Thereafter they began to gather in an upper room in Jerusalem (Acts 1:13-14) and continued in one accord in prayer and supplication. At the descent of the Holy Spirit, on the day of pentecost, Peter preached his famous sermon and the Bible recorded that about three thousand people were added unto them. In Acts 2:47, this group of people were referred to as the church, so the church is a people. This presupposes that the church existed before Acts 2:42. It would be in order to say that the church started with the one hundred and twenty people who met from time to time in that upper room in Jerusalem.

    The people gathered together in one accord under the headship of the Lord to further his plans and purpose - that His kingdom may come and His will done on earth and that all He had spoken may be fulfilled. Jesus Christ, our Lord was the Leader, Founder and President of that early church, for indeed, He founded the church. The early church was minded to prepare a body for the Divine Head to dwell. God's purpose was that Christ would be all in all, in and through the church. She was determined to show forth God's glory and not to advertise herself or her interests. Her only interest was God's will and purpose. This is what the church was at the begining and what it should be for all time. Remember what the Lord told Peter in John 21:18.

    In John 17, Jesus was praying for the church. He said, these people of His were in the world but not of the world. The church should not be swallowed up by the glamour, honour and treasure of the world. Jesus in His intercessory prayer said, He desired that they be ONE - with one another (John 17:22; Romans 12:5), with Him and the Father - this speaks of unity! A divided church therefore cannot be working in Christ's interest and so cannot be HIS BODY. The church began with these humble men and women who met in the upper room, knit together by God's interest and purpose and with a deep love for the Lord. They had no programme of their own but what the Lord directed through His Spirit.

    The Bible speaks of the Church as a body of people who meet in any location, hence we have such terms as 'the church in Antioch, Jerusalem, Corinth, Ephesus etc' It is the church of Jesus Christ, located where God's people gathered and met to further God's purpose. It has no other identity. Paul spoke of "the church in thy house" (Colossians 4:15; Philemon 2...) "the church in their house" (I Corinthians 16:19). These early brethren were satisfied to meet in homes owing allegiance to no leader but Jesus Christ. They were not ruled by human laws or doctrine. The brethren from the church in one location were welcome and gladly received in any other location. Brethren were at home wherever the church met and had the liberty to share the pure undiluted word of God. They all had the same Master and worked towards the same goal, as no brother and sister was a stranger in the midst of the brethren. These should be the qualities of the church today.

    Brethren, when we meet again, we will continue with the topic: "THE CHURCH IN BONDAGE" so, until then, we covet your prayers, stay blessed in Him who alone is the only rightful husband of the church (the Bridegroom of the Bride).

    JESUS IS LORD! Your Brother - 'Segun Ogunfile.

    My Beloved Brethren,

    "....And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter and upon this ROCK(revelation of Jesus as the Christ of God) I will BUILD(make) 'MY CHURCH' and the GATES(wiles, wisdom & craftiness) of HELL(and Satan) shall not prevail against it....." (Matthew 16:18)

    We welcome you once again to this 'HIS VOICE THROUGH THE WEB'. Today, we continue from where we stopped at our last meeting. We do encourage you once again to feel ABSOLUTELY FREE TO PASS IT ON (FORWARD) TO OTHERS:

    THE CHURCH IN BONDAGE: The church of Jesus Christ started as one body with one Lord and one purpose. Besides the propagation of the Gospel, it was eager to see God's kingdom established and Christ revealed in her. Gradually, for what the Bible calls filthy lucre and inordinate ambition, people began to deviate from the first century setting. Men became lovers of themselves, serving their own belly and began to introduce their own doctrine in place of the doctrine of Christ. They began to desire to make a name for themselves and built with "bricks" instead of "stones", See Gen. 11:1-9. People began to build empires and kingdoms for themselves in the name of the Lord.

    This trend has continued down the centuries and has grown worse with time. People set aside Christ's purpose and instituted their own laws and doctrines in the church. They gained applause and recognition while giving their own interpretation to the word of God to favour their selfish acts.

    They sit on Christ's seat receiving honour and worship from their followers. The ownwer of the church has been locked out - Rev. 3:20. God's people are milked and skinned by the herdsmen who answer the name of shepherds - Ezek. 34:2-10. The people of God are made to serve the creature rather than the Creator.

    There is a hierarchy of authority but our Lord is not given a place. Rather than hear from the Holy Spirit, the church now hears from heads of denominations and their aides. Each of the so called "churches" is locked up in a cubicle and identified by a special name with the word "church" attached. No other "church" can take on the name by which another is registered. They are all doing their own thing and trying to outdo one another. "They eat their own bread, wear their own apparel and answer His name" - Isa. 4:1. Dare to worship with so and so church and face discipline, they warn their followers.

    The church of Christ has been sold out and has become a vassal. She is stooping under the whims and caprices of mere men, and is being ruled by the wisdom of men, which is earthly, sensual and devilish - James 3:15-17. The people of God are forbidden by their pastors from eating the bread of life (God's Word) outside their denomination. These same leaders cannot speak the pure word because their deeds will be exposed (Dan. 2:22). They must "beef up" the word for their own comfort and to meet their needs. Besides, the people must be kept in darkness. There is now a thick covering of ignorance over the people.

    The church, in the first century (its beginning) dared to attempt to turn the world right side up (although the jews of that day saw it the other way round). - Acts 17:6. Right now, the church is turned upside down by men who serve their belly, speaking lies in hypocrisy and having their conscience seared with hot iron - I Tim. 4:2. The church has been turned upside down by men who bear all sorts of abominable names so that their evil deeds might be hidden.

    The leader/founder/president can now speak of "my church", my congregation", "my members" because he seats over God's church and takes the place of her Lord and Husband (II Thess. 2:4). In this regard, the church can be called a harlot in the words of prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Hosea. She has sold herself to another who has violated her and put her in bondage. Isa. 1:21; Jer. 2:20; Ezek. 23:25; Hos.2:5 etc

    The road to harlotry was created when the church of Jesus Christ set aside the divine order and arrangements and structured itself like a human organization. The effort of men to organize themselves as in the days of Nimrod gave birth to Babel and today, it gives birth to Babylon (which means, 'CONFUSION'). Babylon, in New Testament prophetic writings, is the name assigned to a church system who through unfaithfulness has given herself to the spirit of this world that is under the control of Satan. Babylon is only a counterfeit of the Body and Bride of Christ. Read Gen.11 for the fate that befell Babel. The present day confusion will be visited upon with such severe judgements. What operates in these systems is nothing but confusion as the Author of peace and order has been locked out - Rev. 3:20; I Cor. 14:33; Heb. 5:9

    The call is going out now for men to deliver themselves from this confusion and flee the wrath to come. Jesus said, "whoever is not for us is against us." Can you afford to kick against the pricks? Heed the call and come out of her (Babylon) - Rev. 18:4 and stand in the liberty (Gal. 5:1). Note very well the following:

    1. There is an emerging new order of things among God's people in many nations as Spirit-filled believers have begun to break free from the stranglehold of Babylon.

    2. The sound of the trumpet, the voice of the Son of God, is right now gathering out of the denominations all those who have ears to "hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches."

    3. The Psalmist foresaw this great move of the Spirit - Psa. 50:5 (see also Mal. 3:16-18).

    4. God is bringing those who heed the call to Himself and to His saving purpose. He is teaching these ones to consecrate themselves wholly unto Him.

    THE GLORIOUS CHURCH: Those who heed the call and seek the word of truth shall make up the glorious church - the church of His purpose. The church is God's organisation and Jesus is the leader through the Holy Spirit (John 16:7, 13). The days are at hand when the church shall fulfill God's purpose as His representative on earth. She will acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord and Head over her. The glorious and completed church will come to the point of unity of faith all true believers will have one faith, one Lord and one church in the fullness of time.

    Today, among the churches, man's trumpet gives uncertain sound because of the diversity of voices, doctrines and denominations. Just so God is, in our day, raising up humble men and women who, with a passion for His glory, are proclaiming a restoration of Truth, its Way, its Life. True believers will hunger for and gather where God's present truth is revealed. The church will, as it were, return to Eden and the son of God will take his rightful place over His own as Lord, Husband and Shepherd - I Peter 2:25. The church will grow into maturity and function effectively in the ministerial offices - Eph. 4:11-13 and come into the measure and stature of the fulness of Christ. He shall then reign over His church which purchased with His own blood to present her perfect unto Himself. The church will be glorious because God's glory will cover her; God's presence shall be in her and holiness shall be her inner clothing - Eph. 5:27. Romans 8:19 says the world is earnestly waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God. These mature sons will be offsprings of the restored, fully nourished, and completed church that will reveal the Lord Christ to the nations. Then, the world shall experience an unprecedented display of power and authority by the Holy Spirit through these sons of God. Amen! It will indeed be a glorious and beautiful church - Isa. 60:1-4. The knowledge of the glory of God shall cover the earth as the waters cover the sea. Amen and Amen!
     
  2. LorrieGrace

    LorrieGrace
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    Seth,

    You have THE longest posts!!
     
  3. Seth3

    Seth3
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    Sorry bout that LorrieGrace I love diving into reading stuff, but I must agree with you. Sometimes things can be too lengthy especially on the puter (hurts my eyes and my back too).

    What you do is this... Don't read it lol! I wont read something too long either but my limit is a bit over this but your limit could be a whole lot less (who can blame you-I don't).

    God bless

    Seth3
     
  4. DHK

    DHK
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    Any one can copy and paste another person's work, Seth. Why not try something original and post your own thoughts on Scripture? If you have a specific question out of all the mumble jumble that you posted why not ask it?
    DHK
     
  5. here now

    here now
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    DHK-
    So what do you think about the content of the text?

    Here Now
     
  6. Seth3

    Seth3
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    D_

    Any questions I do have I know where to go to ask them :D I have posted my own threads (Red Horse, 144,000, To the pure all things are pure, Pharisees, and a few others I can't recall off the top of my head)

    What is that to you anyway D_? You prove my posts most often (in a very subtle way) I'm thankful to God for you for that.

    You "speak against" alot, thats a common biblical theme as well.


    In Him

    Seth3
     
  7. DHK

    DHK
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    Dare you ask! [​IMG] Apart from its verbosity, it is just plain heresy, and a tirade against godly pastors and teachers who are trying to do God's work today. They are often hindered by quacks like this who have a hatred for the local church that Christ ordained.

    No it doesn't. First of all, the word church, in the Greek is "ekklesia." It means congregation or assembly. It does not mean universal church in the sense that you are using it. It is impossible to have a universal assembly, or an unassembled assembly. That is why, every time the word church is used it refers to a body of people who meet in a specific location, not any location.
    It always has an identity. It is usually identified by geography or by some other means. A church must have an identity in this day and age simply to differentiate it from all the other cults and heretical organizations out there today. There were also false teachers in Paul's day. Jesus wrote to 7 different churches in the Book of Revelation, all having 7 different identifiable names.
    This is where you start to get into real heresy. It is true that they met in various houses. But even the houses were identifiable by name. In Rome, they met in the house of Aquilla and Priscilla, for example. But to say they had no allegiance to no leader but to Christ is heresy. The specifically says that elders or pastors were ordained to be the leaders of every church. All of the churches had pastors as the head of the churches. In Acts 15, James was the pastor of the church at Jerusalem. And even though all the Apostles, including Paul, were there to discuss the problems brought about by Judaizers who believed that circumcision and keeping the law were essential to salvation, it was James the pastor the rendered the final decision. The believers of every church owed their allegiance to the pastors of the churhes that they belonged to, not just to Christ alone. There is accountability in the church. Thus the reason for the excommunication of the man that committed incest in 1Cor.5. There is accountablity, not just stratight to Christ, but to the members of the Church, and the pastors in particular.
    Heresy! If you don't have doctrine, you don't have a bible. :rolleyes: All doctrine is based on the Bible. All we know about Christ is based on the doctrine of the Bible. All we know about God is based on the doctrine of the Bible. No bibe--no doctrine. How far-fetched out can you get.
    Concerning human laws--every church has some human laws or traditions associated with them. They are extra-Biblical not unbiblical. Most churches have a constitution. In most places the building that they own must meet safety codes, (man-made laws), the pastor must be licenced to perform marriages, etc. Is the building that you meet in (whether house or church building) built like a rickety old barn ready to be condemned, or is it a well built structure that has met all the building and safety codes of the state and municipality that you live in? There are human laws that need to be obeyed.
    We also have traditions. I have been in churches that "take up an offering" in a traditional sense by passing a plate, and I have been in a church that has an offering box at the back of the church where the members bring their tithe and offerings. "Human laws?" No, different ways of doing different things.
    Only if the so-called brethren were in good standing. Paul warned churches of certain ones to beware of. What did he say about Alexander the coppersmith? Do you think he would have given him a good recommendation?
    They were subject to the pastor of the church that they went to. Paul gave directions to the leaders of the church of Rome, how to treat Phoebe when she arrived, and what ministry she would have in that church.

    This again shows the ignorance of the word or phrase "church of Christ" A church is an assembly, a congregation that meets at a specific place. That is what ekklesia means. Biblical churches have not been sold out or made vassals. This is this man's rant against God's ordained institution--the local church. He doesn't like pastoral authority, therefore he spews out venom against it, and thus against God who gave his life for the church. (Eph.5:25).
    The mere men that he calls earthly, sensual, devilish, are the pastors and teachers on this board, many of whom are Godly pastors of good churches. You have the gall to come on this board and spew out venom against the godly people of this board calling them sensual and devilish. The administrators should revoke your posting privileges for doing such things. How crude!! :anger:
    False accusations get you no where here. We recommend to our people to study the Bible on their own as much as possible. And they do. What is this accusation about being "forbidden?"
    False Accusation. Watch what you say. You are responsible for what you post, even if it is another person's material, for you are treating it as if it is your own.
    You are inferring that we are ignorant. You have said that we CANNOT speak the pure word. Such slurs are totally unwarranted.
    More false allegations.
    Who says that we must "beef up" the word for our own comfort to meet our own needs. What is the need for these unnecessary attacks. This is pure hatred of pastors, teachers, and local churches. "The people must be kept in darkness." That is a joke. The author of this article, and perhaps yourself, Seth, for posting it, are in darkness. Those that don't have a pastor to expound the Word are in darkness. They are in disobedience to the Word of God.
    The article is heretical. And such articles should not be allowed to be posted.
    DHK
     
  8. Seth3

    Seth3
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    DHK SAYS
    Dare you ask! Apart from its verbosity, it is just plain heresy, and a tirade against godly pastors and teachers who are trying to do God's work today. They are often hindered by quacks like this who have a hatred for the local church that Christ ordained.

    quote: QUOTE FROM ARTICLE

    The Bible speaks of the Church as a body of people who meet in any location, hence we have such terms as 'the church in Antioch, Jerusalem, Corinth, Ephesus etc'

    DHK adds his 2 cents

    No it doesn't. First of all, the word church, in the Greek is "ekklesia." It means congregation or assembly. It does not mean universal church in the sense that you are using it. It is impossible to have a universal assembly, or an unassembled assembly. That is why, every time the word church is used it refers to a body of people who meet in a specific location, not any location.


    Actually yes it does. The church that MEETS IN THEIR HOUSE WHERE EVER IT IS. As Jesus said (((WHERE))) two or three ARE GATHERED in His name THERE HE IS.


    quote: DHK QUOTE ARTICLE

    It is the church of Jesus Christ, located where God's people gathered and met to further God's purpose. It has no other identity.

    DHK gives his 2cents again,

    It always has an identity. It is usually identified by geography or by some other means. A church must have an identity in this day and age simply to differentiate it from all the other cults and heretical organizations out there today. There were also false teachers in Paul's day. Jesus wrote to 7 different churches in the Book of Revelation, all having 7 different identifiable names.


    Seth3,

    Know others by their fruits not labels, labels are manmade fruit of the Spirit is Godmade.
    quote: DHK uses QUOTE again

    Paul spoke of "the church in thy house" (Colossians 4:15; Philemon 2...) "the church in their house" (I Corinthians 16:19). These early brethren were satisfied to meet in homes owing allegiance to no leader but Jesus Christ.

    DHK replies

    This is where you start to get into real heresy.

    Seth3 replies,

    I see… Allegience to Christ is now heresy? And these people are heretics?


    DHK says

    It is true that they met in various houses.


    Seth3 replies,

    Yes IT IS… BUT???


    DHK says

    But even the houses were identifiable by name.


    Seth3 replies,

    Yeah, like Bob and Suzy’s house? Bill and Loraines? Ofcourse they would know where to meet up together. Saying Go to “the house” leaves no real direction.

    DHK says
    In Rome, they met in the house of Aquilla and Priscilla, for example.


    Seth3 replies

    Your getting it… yes that’s correct.

    DHK says,

    But to say they had no allegiance to no leader but to Christ is heresy.

    Seth3 replies,

    Paul said He did not preach Himself but Christ as Lord, those submitting to the Authority of Christ labour in love and for the joy of their brothers and sisters. Their authority given is “to build up” the nature of what is out there “tears down”. Though not everywhere. Theres those so hung up on authority and “lord over others”. That’s not the true authority of Christ.


    DHK says,

    The specifically says that elders or pastors were ordained to be the leaders of every church. All of the churches had pastors as the head of the churches. In Acts 15, James was the pastor of the church at Jerusalem. And even though all the Apostles, including Paul, were there to discuss the problems brought about by Judaizers who believed that circumcision and keeping the law were essential to salvation, it was James the pastor the rendered the final decision. The believers of every church owed their allegiance to the pastors of the churhes that they belonged to, not just to Christ alone.


    Seth3 replies,

    I cannot believe you added the last comment on this. Obeying God over men is what even the apostles quoted to those who thought they were “the authority”

    I filled an entire post to you about its whom God approves and not men. Showing it’s the ministers who are APPROVED as the Spirit shows. People heap up to themselves false teachers already. So to defend them without discerning them is completely nonsense, shall I repost my ignored reply to you? Any replies to you end up on not addressing anything anyway. Leaders lead by way of EXAMPLE and we are told to follow others examples as the follow PAULS. That there would be wolves in sheep’s clothing no “sparing the flock” deceivers mostly from the party of the “circumcision” group. Spying out our liberty to bring others back into bondage again. Yoking the weak and seducing the unstable in Christ, pointing the finger in judgement laying the yoke on their backs and manifesting themselves as HYPOCRITS and LIARS and it would not be the FEW but THE MANY. And OF THE FEW if it WERE AT ALL POSSIBLE it would deceive them (but its not possible because they CLEAVE TO CHRIST not men. They FOLLOW HIM.

    DHK says


    There is accountability in the church.

    Seth3 replies

    EACH MAN MUST GIVE AN ACCOUNT OF HIMSELF TO GOD. Forgetting ONE THING, if they sheep are leaving its because the ANNOINTING TOOK OFF. Without HIM we can DO NOTHING, we cannot witness to the world or produce fruit without abiding in the Vine. So those who are under the STRICTER JUDGEMENT are THE LEADERS NOT THE FLOCK. If the Flock leaves it’s the righteous judgement of God toward the LEADERS. God will raise up others.

    DHK replies,


    Thus the reason for the excommunication of the man that committed incest in 1Cor.5. There is accountablity, not just stratight to Christ, but to the members of the Church, and the pastors in particular.

    Seth 3 replies,

    But you dilerberately forget that Paul answers for the man who had done such a thing in his second letter to the Corinthians and it had nothing to do with the one who did the wrong but to test them to see if they would be OBEDIENT TO HIM in all things.


    quote: DHK QUOTES

    They were not ruled by human laws or doctrine.

    DHK screams


    Heresy! If you don't have doctrine, you don't have a bible. All doctrine is based on the Bible.

    Seth3 replies,

    Paul talks about the commandments and traditions of men. The person is talking about “human laws or doctrine” not the doctrine of Christ. Don’t get your girdle in a bunch.

    DHK says


    All we know about Christ is based on the doctrine of the Bible. All we know about God is based on the doctrine of the Bible. No bibe--no doctrine. How far-fetched out can you get.


    Seth3 replies,

    Watch ones LIFE and DOCTRINE in this you will save your hearers. If that’s not there you will not. Your comment is based on your overlooking the fact that it stresses “human” not God, its clearly written you copy pasted it.


    DHK says


    Concerning human laws--every church has some human laws or traditions associated with them. They are extra-Biblical not unbiblical. Most churches have a constitution. In most places the building that they own must meet safety codes, (man-made laws), the pastor must be licenced to perform marriages, etc. Is the building that you meet in (whether house or church building) built like a rickety old barn ready to be condemned, or is it a well built structure that has met all the building and safety codes of the state and municipality that you live in? There are human laws that need to be obeyed.

    Seth3 replies,
    Were talking about mens traditions or commandments displacing Gods shown as Jesus shows, “setting aside Gods commands for mens” making void the word of God for the sake of their traditions.


    DHK says,


    We also have traditions. I have been in churches that "take up an offering" in a traditional sense by passing a plate, and I have been in a church that has an offering box at the back of the church where the members bring their tithe and offerings. "Human laws?" No, different ways of doing different things.

    Seth3

    Tithing is old covenant, a cheerful giver with a willing heart is new covenant.


    quote: DHK QUOTES

    The brethren from the church in one location were welcome and gladly received in any other location.

    DHK says

    Only if the so-called brethren were in good standing. Paul warned churches of certain ones to beware of. What did he say about Alexander the coppersmith? Do you think he would have given him a good recommendation?

    Seth3 replies,

    Obviously, this is a no brainer, I think the person who wrote this was speaking to believers in love with the Lord Himself.
    quote:

    DHK QUOTES

    Brethren were at home wherever the church met and had the liberty to share the pure undiluted word of God. They all had the same Master and worked towards the same goal, as no brother and sister was a stranger in the midst of the brethren. These should be the qualities of the church today.


    DHK says,
    They were subject to the pastor of the church that they went to. Paul gave directions to the leaders of the church of Rome, how to treat Phoebe when she arrived, and what ministry she would have in that church.

    Seth3 replies,

    What on earth are you disagreeing with the Spirit of this quote is beautiful. You keep *umping on leaders, maybe if leaders could reflect the true leadership of Christ reflected in Paul’s life (who I just adore in Spirit) Maybe leaders wouldn’t simply DEMAND themselves over others and maybe if they were true leaders they would reflect the depth of love and care Paul had for his children in the faith. Maybe if they didn’t beat every passer byer with a stick every chance they get, and have the word of God in their hearts verses their brains maybe something beautiful would be born of them. I know my knees would simply melt before Paul. His love is beyond anything I’ve seen in a leader. He lowered himself in order to “elevate them”. He worked for their joy, had a deep yearning for them and great concern. They were His joy. He wanted them to be where he was. He HAD something REAL. That’s kinda hard to find. So wherever I do find it I cherish it in another brother or sister THAT’S divine. Submission to THAT comes naturally, I could not resist the Spirit of love and care in Him I would be drawn like a magnet to it.


    quote: DHK QUOTES

    The church of Christ has been sold out and has become a vassal. She is stooping under the whims and caprices of mere men, and is being ruled by the wisdom of men, which is earthly, sensual and devilish - James 3:15-17.

    DHK says

    This again shows the ignorance of the word or phrase "church of Christ" A church is an assembly, a congregation that meets at a specific place. That is what ekklesia means. Biblical churches have not been sold out or made vassals. This is this man's rant against God's ordained institution--the local church. He doesn't like pastoral authority, therefore he spews out venom against it, and thus against God who gave his life for the church. (Eph.5:25).
    The mere men that he calls earthly, sensual, devilish, are the pastors and teachers on this board, many of whom are Godly pastors of good churches. You have the gall to come on this board and spew out venom against the godly people of this board calling them sensual and devilish. The administrators should revoke your posting privileges for doing such things. How crude!! :anger:


    Seth3 replies,

    I see you say things about “Catholics and the like”. I have said NOTHING, I simply posted a post from another site stating it was not mine, and I put it up here for debate because I found it interesting.

    So YOU perceived IN YOURSELF that this was made for YOU? That’s strange because I simply copy pasted this from another place and this person whoever it is probrobly never me you. To accuse someone of slandering you when they obviously are not is unjust. But I realize you are very serious about getting me off this board at any cost and I’m sure you will find a way because you show a great interest in nailing down anything you can get your hands on.


    quote: DHK QUOTES

    The people of God are forbidden by their pastors from eating the bread of life (God's Word) outside their denomination.

    DHK replies


    False accusations get you no where here. We recommend to our people to study the Bible on their own as much as possible. And they do. What is this accusation about being "forbidden?"

    Seth3 replies,

    DHK I cant judge this person or from what experiences this person has gone through or others to draw this conclusion. But I believe because I personally have seen others desiring to go elsewhere (from one denomination to another) NOW if YOUR S is the denomination they are coming to… YOUR GLAD (We’ve won them to Christ) on the other hand IF YOURS is the one they might be leaving to go elsewhere I have seen examples of how people are treated as if they are betrayed. A simple move can be catastrophic because of these divisions within the body.
    quote: DHK quotes

    These same leaders cannot speak the pure word because their deeds will be exposed (Dan. 2:22).

    DHK says

    False Accusation. Watch what you say. You are responsible for what you post, even if it is another person's material, for you are treating it as if it is your own.
    You are inferring that we are ignorant. You have said that we CANNOT speak the pure word. Such slurs are totally unwarranted.


    Seth3 replies,

    This person is not speaking to you DHK we all know you know the truth and are walking in the love of God … But you are perceiving this directly to you. Something inside of you is bringing this to you. When YOU speak “in general” your not speaking to the people on the board are you? Unless your directly speaking to a person.

    So this quote To you is a “slur”? I have heard worse coming from your end that’s unfair.


    quote: DHK QUOTES
    They must "beef up" the word for their own comfort and to meet their needs. Besides, the people must be kept in darkness. There is now a thick covering of ignorance over the people.


    DHK says
    More false allegations.
    Who says that we must "beef up" the word for our own comfort to meet our own needs. What is the need for these unnecessary attacks. This is pure hatred of pastors, teachers, and local churches. "The people must be kept in darkness." That is a joke. The author of this article, and perhaps yourself, Seth, for posting it, are in darkness. Those that don't have a pastor to expound the Word are in darkness. They are in disobedience to the Word of God.
    The article is heretical. And such articles should not be allowed to be posted.
    DHK


    Seth3 replies
    The author I don’t know. I believe its called “The Fathers House” I can post it, perhaps you can e-mail this person and give them a piece of your mind, think that will help them?

    I simply Believe its Christ Himself who is our Light as He is a Light to all those who are in Darkness and His light in us is what we should walk by.

    I can’t answer for what you believe as an attack on “all” or answer for a copy paste of another persons thoughts. I think your losing a bit of focus here.

    In Him

    Seth3


    Ekklesia and means a called out assembly
     
  9. GH

    GH
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    Hi Seth3 [​IMG]

    I'm withya there brother. The church of the firstborn, that's us. :D Called out of religious organizations looking to the Head for His LIFEgiving presence inside us.

    Some churches meet on websites don'tcha think? Some on lunch breaks. Some on telephones, too. Wherever two or three are gathered. Yep, you're right on!

    Bless you, GH
     
  10. Seth3

    Seth3
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    Oh GH!!! Your a Trip! Wherever we are, He is there with us, is this not so true? Where can we go away from His Spirit that lives within us? He will never leave or forsake us. We delight in Him and lift up His banner of Love.

    What a blessing this Life in the Lord is! I'm so grateful for his precious life in all of us who rejoice in Him.

    Amen Hon

    In Him

    Seth3
     
  11. DHK

    DHK
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    Check the context Seth. Mat.18:20 is not a definition of a church. "For where two or three are gathered together is not a definition of a church." It has to do with church discipline. Mat.18 goes through the steps of how to discipline an erring member of the church. Go to him. Tell him his fault. Take two or three witnesses if he does not repent. If he still does not repent bring him before the church. If there is no repentance let him be unto thee as a heathen and a publican--which means to have no fellowship with him, not even to eat with him. It was complete rejection or disfellowship. The verse (two or three gathered together) referred to the quorum at the business meeting where such a decision was made. It was the decision of the church to excommunicate the erring person. If it was a small church, it would only take a majority of two or three people to make that decision hold. That is the meaning of that verse.
    So Jesus was a heretic to use labels in Revelation 2and 3 was He. He used labels. You need to read those chapters.

    Paul said: "Be ye followers of me; even as I am of Christ." According to you Paul is a heretic because he told the Corinthians to follow him. In fact in many verses in many of his epistles he told those that he wrote to him to follow his example, if not to follow he himself.

    You are going from the sublime to the ridiculous. The church that I attend in was started in a home as well. So what! It still has a name. Perhaps the real name of the church in Jerusalem was the First Baptist Church in Jerusalem. [​IMG] Needless to say it had a different name than the church at Antioch which was different than the church of Jerusalem. This is not rocket science. There were also false teachers in that time. They were warned not to go to the houses and places of the heretics or the false teachers. And if false teachers came to their door they were commanded not to let them in, not even to say good-bye to them (2John 9-11).
    That was the message of Christ, as is the message of most of the churches I am associated with--to preach Christ the Lord, and Him crucified. Paul still had authority over the churches which he started. Read 1Cor.5. See how he commanded them to purge out the leaven from among them. That is, to discipline the immoral person from them. The original command came from Paul. He was a man of great authority. One just has to read his epistles.

    Let's get it right.
    God approves men.
    You may not like that concept, but God approves and ordains pastors and teachers to be leaders of his churches.
    James was the pastor of the church at Jerusalem
    Apollos was the pastor of the church as Corinth.
    Titus was the pastor of the church at Crete.
    Timothy was the pastor of the church at Ephesus.
    Aquilla was the pastor in Rome.

    Acts 14:23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

    Paul started over 100 churches. In over 100 churches elders or pastors were appointed in which the people were commanded to submit to them.
    Care to support your false allegations and anti-biblical and anti-pastoral venom?
    Do you know me? Do you know our church? Do you know the other pastors on this board? You have just continued your triade against us, calling it nonsense to defend us as pastors. Your secretive gnosticism is heresy. You have set yourself up as a god. For one that does not believe in teachers what on earth are you doing on this board teaching? What hypocrisy is this. You don't believe in teachers but you yourself teach? :confused: :rolleyes: The abundance of hypocrites never cease.
    Take the beam out of your own eye. Practice what you preach. The wolf is sheep's clothing is the one who just posted (not me in case your confused). Your liberty to believe anything you want is your bondage to keep you in the sin of heretical beliefs or doctrine. Do you have any idea what Ray Smith, for example, believes about the trinity? You are not cleaving to Christ ironically. You are cleaving to the teachings of men such as Ray Smith. You tell others that their church's pastors give false teachings, but you yourself follow heretical teachers such as Ray Smith. How ironical.
    We do give accout of ourselves to God, and will also do so at the Judgement Seat of Christ (if we are Christians). But the Bible indicates that there must be accountability in the local church. There is pastoral authority. We are to be submissive to those in authority in the church. The bible makes that very clear.
    Check 1Cor.7:1. Paul spends the entire epistle of 1Cor. correcting the problems that were faced in the church at corinth. I mentioned only one instance. Do you want me to list them all: divisions among them, taking one another to court, abuse of the Lord's Table, problems in marriage, abuse of the Spiritual gifts, even the very denial of the resurrection, a defence of his apostolic authority, and many others. It just wasn't one problem in the fifth chapter that he had authority to correct; it was many, all throught the entire epistle.
    You are the one that doesn't believe in the doctrine of Christ if you follow in the teachings of Ray Smith. He doesn't believe in the trinity, and therefore follows a different Christ, a false Christ. He does not bring unto you the doctrine of Christ, but a false Christ and a false gospel. Paul said that such a one is accursed. "Don't get your girdle in a bunch." You and him believe in heresy, so much so that your very salvation is in question.
    DHK
     
  12. DHK

    DHK
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    You don't get it do you! Doctrine comes from the Bible. Without it you don't have Christ. This has nothing to do with human laws or anything else. The gospel comes from the Bible. Christ is based on the Bible. He is not some mystical being. If Christ is mystical to you, he probably is a demon. All we know about Christ is in the bible. Know and understand. He that has an ear let him hear what the Spirit says.

    If we are then you are just making false allegations and accusations against the pastors and teachers on this board again. This is totally unwarranted. You are telling us that we displace God with man's traditions and commandments. What shall I say but to call you a liar and a slanderer. Shall I bring a law suit against you for all this slander. It is possible you know.

    I never said it was or wasn't. It is up to each and every local church, and especially the pastor to make the final church. If you can't live with the final decision of that church then find one that you can live with. It is no big deal. Some believe it is for today; others don't. That is where Baptists believe in soul liberty--the right to believe and respect the beliefs of others.

    Maybe if leaders could...
    Maybe if leaders could...
    Maybe some leaders do. I cannot help it if you have had a bad experience with some churches. That does not mean you have an obligation to castigate all churches with a black brush, and paint all pastors and all teachers and tarnish them with hatred and venom such as not has been seen on this board. You attack us for no other reason than you hatred for churches and its leaders. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves. You need to study the "Pastoral Epistles," and obey the instructions given therein.

    But not impossible to find.
    You will find it in a good Bible-believing local church.
    That is your problem. You posted it as if it is yours, and as if you accept its doctrine as gospel truth. If you don't accept it, then don't post it. Why be deceptive? I reply to your post and your beliefs as you post to them. When a Catholic posts I respond to Catholic beliefs as they post them.

    You obviously post what you believe in. Otherwise you would not post it. And I say again, don't post what you don't believe. Don't be a liar and deliberately deceptive.

    I judge the person by what he has written, and the doctrine he believes. If he has written heresy then he is a heretic. Doesn't that make sense to you? It is what the Bible teaches. "Judge righteous judgement," is what Jesus commanded.

    You are wrong here. He is speaking to me, and all who are on the internet. He spreads his heretical beliefs to all who come across his website which is very unfortunate. When I use the pronoun "you" I usually use it in a generic sense meaning all, unless I am directly addressing you, in which case I believe you would know it, for I would use your name in the same sentence or context. But usually it is in a generic sense.

    It was one of many.
    Your posting the article is an indication that you believe what you post. You are responsible for what you post. I took the post apart as I did to show how inflammatory it was, and how heretical it is. It does not show the love of Christ. It demeans others. It is slanderous. And it is heretical in its doctrines. Why because it uses an allegorical gnostic method of approaching the Bible.
    DHK
     
  13. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed
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    This is a little out of context, but it speaks to the fact that Paul wrote about there being different churches.

    I Corinthians 7:

    17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

    Speaking of the gifts possessed by each member of the flock, Paul tells the church at Corinth that he wants all churches and their members to walk according to the gifts God has given them in their respective churches.

    Paul clearly sees a church as being a singular place, or body of believers in a particular area. Otherwise, he would have said, "And so ordain I in all of the Church." or something to that effect.
     
  14. Seth3

    Seth3
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    DHK says

    Check the context Seth. Mat.18:20 is not a definition of a church. "For where two or three are gathered together is not a definition of a church." It has to do with church discipline. Mat.18 goes through the steps of how to discipline an erring member of the church. Go to him. Tell him his fault. Take two or three witnesses if he does not repent. If he still does not repent bring him before the church. If there is no repentance let him be unto thee as a heathen and a publican--which means to have no fellowship with him, not even to eat with him. It was complete rejection or disfellowship. The verse (two or three gathered together) referred to the quorum at the business meeting where such a decision was made. It was the decision of the church to excommunicate the erring person. If it was a small church, it would only take a majority of two or three people to make that decision hold. That is the meaning of that verse.

    Seth3 replies,

    Jesus said Its neither here nor there when asked about where we were to worship, we are to worship in Spirit and in Truth. We are living stones where we are He is there with us. He was not talking about “a business meeting” in gathering by two or three. Synogages (which are by definition were not mentioned after Acts just homes. Well… with the exception of Revelation but I wont go there.

    DHK says,

    So Jesus was a heretic to use labels in Revelation 2and 3 was He. He used labels. You need to read those chapters.

    Seth3 replies,

    What labels? The areas of the churches? Or the predominant Spirit of the “doctrines”

    DHK says

    Paul said: "Be ye followers of me; even as I am of Christ." According to you Paul is a heretic because he told the Corinthians to follow him. In fact in many verses in many of his epistles he told those that he wrote to him to follow his example, if not to follow he himself.

    Seth3 replies,

    I have already made this point DHK He is an established Apostle and through HIS gospel we are saved and HIS EXAMPLE is to me the most beautiful one of all.

    DHK QUOTES SETH3
    Yeah, like Bob and Suzy’s house? Bill and Loraines? Ofcourse they would know where to meet up together. Saying Go to “the house” leaves no real direction.

    Then DHK says

    You are going from the sublime to the ridiculous. The church that I attend in was started in a home as well. So what! It still has a name. Perhaps the real name of the church in Jerusalem was the First Baptist Church in Jerusalem. Needless to say it had a different name than the church at Antioch which was different than the church of Jerusalem. This is not rocket science. There were also false teachers in that time. They were warned not to go to the houses and places of the heretics or the false teachers. And if false teachers came to their door they were commanded not to let them in, not even to say good-bye to them (2John 9-11).


    Seth3 replies,

    Yes if it was at my House it would be a Seth3’s house. My house has no Name I’m the owner of this house and I would open it up to others to glory in our Lord together.

    DHK Quotes Seth3

    Paul said He did not preach Himself but Christ as Lord, those submitting to the Authority of Christ labour in love and for the joy of their brothers and sisters. Their authority given is “to build up” the nature of what is out there “tears down”. Though not everywhere. Theres those so hung up on authority and “lord over others”. That’s not the true authority of Christ.

    DHK replies,

    That was the message of Christ, as is the message of most of the churches I am associated with--to preach Christ the Lord, and Him crucified. Paul still had authority over the churches which he started. Read 1Cor.5. See how he commanded them to purge out the leaven from among them. That is, to discipline the immoral person from them. The original command came from Paul. He was a man of great authority. One just has to read his epistles.

    Seh3 replies

    Christ is Lord and Paul’s gospel saves. Leaven cannot be purged if the ones needing the purging are the ones in Authority (as it was seen in Jesus day, it grows much worse as scriptures says). We would then have to go to Christ, who says “Leave them they are blind guides”.

    Besides going to church is not my issue its YOURS I have a hubby that I’m to submit to as unto the Lord and he loves me and does not want to leave and neither I him. But he will not allow us to go to a building to be taught. So I have to stay home and trust the Lord in that wont I?

    DHK says,

    Let's get it right.
    God approves men.
    You may not like that concept, but God approves and ordains pastors and teachers to be leaders of his churches.
    James was the pastor of the church at Jerusalem
    Apollos was the pastor of the church as Corinth.
    Titus was the pastor of the church at Crete.
    Timothy was the pastor of the church at Ephesus.
    Aquilla was the pastor in Rome.

    Acts 14:23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

    Paul started over 100 churches. In over 100 churches elders or pastors were appointed in which the people were commanded to submit to them.

    Seth3 replies,

    Get it right… There are MANY FALSE TEACHERS AS WELL (NOT FEW but MANY) as scripture says. Thank God DOES APPROVE of MY HUSBAND being in charge, it gets me completely out of it.

    Kinda stinks when the first church had to be dragged away from each other their love was so strong, now you got to drag them in with threats to get them to come. Relying more on the threat of authority then the true love that abides in the true authority in Christ.

    DHK says,

    Care to support your false allegations and anti-biblical and anti-pastoral venom?


    Seth3 replies,

    Paul submitted himself to Christ who IS the Word and was GIVEN AUTHORITY to BUILD UP THE CHURCH and stayed not in one place but moved from region to region not conferring with flesh and blood. But went as Christ told Him and where Christ told Him.

    True Authority of Christ in Ministers bearing the fruit of righteousness and approved of by Christ.


    Mark 10:42 But Jesus called them [to him], and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.

    But so SHALL NOT BE AMONG YOU: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:

    And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be SERVANT OF ALL

    Phil 2:1 IF THERE BE therefore ANY consolation in Christ, IF ANY comfort of love, IF ANY fellowship of the Spirit, IF ANY bowels and mercies,

    1John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

    2Corinth 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

    Phil 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
    Phil 1:16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely
    Phil 1:17 But the other of love


    Romans 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that THEY WHICH ARE APPROVED may be made MANIFEST among you.

    James 3:16 For where envying and strife [is], there [is] confusion and every evil work.

    James 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, [and] easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

    James 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace OF THEM that make peace.


    Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

    Romans 14:18 For he that IN THESE THINGS serveth Christ [is] ACCEPTABLE TO God, and APPROVED OF MEN.


    Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
    Gal 5:24 And THEY THAT ARE CHRISTS have CRUCIFIED THE FLESH with the affections and lusts.

    1Corinth 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?


    2Corinth 6:4 But in all [things] APPROVING OURSELVES as the ministers of God

    2Corinth 10:8 For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:

    2Corinth 10:18 For NOT he that COMMENDETH HIMSELF is approved, BUT WHOM the LORD COMMENDETH.


    Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.


    2Corinth 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.

    2Cornth 11:13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

    2Corinth 11:18 Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also.

    2Corinth 11:19 For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye [yourselves] are wise.

    2Corinth 11:20 For ye suffer, if a man bring you into BONDAGE, if a man DEVOUR YOU [you], if a man TAKE [of you], if a man EXALT himself, if a man SMITE you on the face.

    2Corinth 11:23 Are they MINISTERS of CHRIST? (I speak as a fool) I [am] MORE!!!

    Wrong preachers over and over and over

    1Tim 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

    1Tim 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

    1Timothy 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: FROM SUCH WITHDRAWL THYSELF.

    2Tim 4:1 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they HEAP TO THEMSELVES TEACHERS, having itching ears;

    2Timothy 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

    2John1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

    2John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:

    Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

    Gal 2:5 To whom we gave place by SUBJECTION, NO, NOT FOR AN HOUR; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

    Gal 2:6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed [to be somewhat] in conference added nothing to me:

    Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter;

    Gal 2:8 (For he that wrought EFFECTULLY in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)


    Romans 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

    The Lord Approves, the Lord commends, the Lord shows those that are His. The Lord distinguishes those who walk in the Authority of Christ and what kind of authority was given. The Lord shows the fruits of a true minister and those who are approved are made manifest. they approve themselves to you if they are what they are. Anyone serving Christ in the righteousness of Christ peace and joy in the holy Spirit is not only approved by men but ACCEPTABLE TO HIM as an example for anyone to follow. But a stranger they wont hear, Christ said, in fact they will run from a stranger because they do not reccognize a strangers voice, being familiar with the Lords voice.

    Where two or three come together He is there as the Lord says. I believe Him and gathering together is not a chore or command but an admonishment.

    Among the rightly discerned body (Fellowship is) a complete and utter joy. You would then have to tear us apart from each other.


    DHK quotes Seth3

    I filled an entire post to you about its whom God approves and not men. Showing it’s the ministers who are APPROVED as the Spirit shows. People heap up to themselves false teachers already. So to defend them without discerning them is completely nonsense, shall I repost my ignored reply to you? Any replies to you end up on not addressing anything anyway. Leaders lead by way of EXAMPLE and we are told to follow others examples as the follow PAULS. That there would be wolves in sheep’s clothing no “sparing the flock” deceivers mostly from the party of the “circumcision” group. Spying out our liberty to bring others back into bondage again. Yoking the weak and seducing the unstable in Christ, pointing the finger in judgement laying the yoke on their backs and manifesting themselves as HYPOCRITS and LIARS and it would not be the FEW but THE MANY. And OF THE FEW if it WERE AT ALL POSSIBLE it would deceive them (but its not possible because they CLEAVE TO CHRIST not men. They FOLLOW HIM.


    Do you know me? Do you know our church? Do you know the other pastors on this board? You have just continued your triade against us, calling it nonsense to defend us as pastors. Your secretive gnosticism is heresy. You have set yourself up as a god. For one that does not believe in teachers what on earth are you doing on this board teaching? What hypocrisy is this. You don't believe in teachers but you yourself teach? The abundance of hypocrites never cease.

    Seth3 replies

    Read the above I’m not posting TO YOU or ABOUT YOU. My post is my post a “Copy paste from elsewhere. Its posted saying “up for discussion” there is nowhere I have mentioned this post is about DHK or any of the other pastors here this person nor myself has met. PROVE THAT STATEMENT you falsely accuse me.

    Set myself up as God? PROVE IT. That is false. I don’t believe in teachers? FALSE In another thread I should you I know my teachers and they are those in whom I perceive the lips and life of knowledge. Again you here what you want to hear in order to kick me off when in fact the very opposite is true. Me2 is a wonderful teacher, I have others I simply adore in Christ. Christ leads me to those in Him.

    I simply say the Lord is the BEST TEACHER.


    DHK says,

    There is accountability in the church.


    Seth3

    That’s right TO GOD AS SCRIPTURES SAY (see the verses?)

    Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

    1Peter 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.


    DHK quotes Seth3

    Paul talks about the commandments and traditions of men. The person is talking about “human laws or doctrine” not the doctrine of Christ. Don’t get your girdle in a bunch.

    To which DHK replies

    You are the one that doesn't believe in the doctrine of Christ if you follow in the teachings of Ray Smith. He doesn't believe in the trinity, and therefore follows a different Christ, a false Christ. He does not bring unto you the doctrine of Christ, but a false Christ and a false gospel. Paul said that such a one is accursed. "Don't get your girdle in a bunch." You and him believe in heresy, so much so that your very salvation is in question.

    Seth3 replies
    My salvation is never in question, That sure sounds like “IF THOU ART THE SON OF GOD”.

    Christ says He who believe in me hath everlasting life. I believe in Him and my Trust is in Christ, its not mentality shakable in me DHK its something anchored in me.

    The word TRINITY is found no where in scripture it’s a manmade word. Is there a Father? YES is there a Son Jesus Christ? YES. Is there a Holy Spirit? YES.

    Jesus says, “HEAR O ISREAL (Seems pretty important if he says HEAR) THE LORD YOUR GOD IS ONE.

    Yet every one argues the threeness despite Christ’s words.

    Now Did I deny the Father? No. Did I deny Christ as the Son? No. Did I deny the Holy Spirit? NO. Do I acknowledge them all? YES. But Jesus said The Lord our God is ONE.

    There’s ONE SPIRIT ONE BAPTISM ONE FAITH AND ONE GOD.

    Although I nor maybe (I don’t know I can’t defend anothers beliefs when I don’t know them all) may say “Trinity” a word not found in scripture I neither deny anything in scripture itself.

    Second of all, you can’t be accusing me of not liking teachers then contradicting yourself saying I’m a follower of men, yet I say I follow the leading of the Lord.

    Its really a complete mess.
     
  15. Seth3

    Seth3
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    Seth3’s quote
    Watch ones LIFE and DOCTRINE in this you will save your hearers. If that’s not there you will not. Your comment is based on your overlooking the fact that it stresses “human” not God, its clearly written you copy pasted it.

    To which DHK replies
    You don't get it do you! Doctrine comes from the Bible. Without it you don't have Christ. This has nothing to do with human laws or anything else. The gospel comes from the Bible. Christ is based on the Bible. He is not some mystical being. If Christ is mystical to you, he probably is a demon. All we know about Christ is in the bible. Know and understand. He that has an ear let him hear what the Spirit says.

    Seth3 replies,

    All I do is quote scripture, and it neither satisfies you. So also does the “Letter of the word” come from scripture. So does the Yoke of Moses come from scripture unless its properly handled.

    I “Get it” Its Christ and Him crucified and HIM as the TRUTH. The Wisdom and Power of God is not in men but the Cross of Christ. I know.

    What do you mean “Mystical being” Christ is Spirit. If you are equating what you are equating with “Spirit” then I agree but otherwise I do not have an idea of these terms you use. Christ Is Come in the Flesh.

    Though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh we do so no longer Paul says, so theres a change in perceiving Him according to the Spirit.

    If I did evil then you can tell me what evil I did?

    DHK QUOTES SETH3
    Were talking about mens traditions or commandments displacing Gods shown as Jesus shows, “setting aside Gods commands for mens” making void the word of God for the sake of their traditions.

    DHK replies,
    If we are then you are just making false allegations and accusations against the pastors and teachers on this board again. This is totally unwarranted. You are telling us that we displace God with man's traditions and commandments. What shall I say but to call you a liar and a slanderer. Shall I bring a law suit against you for all this slander. It is possible you know.

    Seth3 replies,

    Do what you feel led to Do, if a courtroom will condemn me for posting another persons thoughts on a discussion and you keep saying I accused you of what you are deeply feeling (apparently) that I have. I would love a copy paste of the accusation. This article or myself mentions no one on this board. It was “in a general sense of the many”


    DHK says

    We also have traditions. I have been in churches that "take up an offering" in a traditional sense by passing a plate, and I have been in a church that has an offering box at the back of the church where the members bring their tithe and offerings. "Human laws?" No, different ways of doing different things.


    Seth3 replies
    Tithing is old covenant, a cheerful giver with a willing heart is new covenant.

    DHK says

    I never said it was or wasn't. It is up to each and every local church, and especially the pastor to make the final church. If you can't live with the final decision of that church then find one that you can live with. It is no big deal. Some believe it is for today; others don't.
    That is where Baptists believe in soul liberty--the right to believe and respect the beliefs of others.

    Seth3 replies,

    So you believe in Soul liberty? Like to RESPECT the beliefs of others? In just word or action? Because I don’t see that respect. The label might say so but its not really happening in reality here.

    In reference to Paul the apostle’s Love Seth3 writes
    His love is beyond anything I’ve seen in a leader. He lowered himself in order to “elevate them”. He worked for their joy, had a deep yearning for them and great concern. They were His joy. He wanted them to be where he was. He HAD something REAL. That’s kinda hard to find.

    DHK replies,

    But not impossible to find.

    Seth3 replies
    So wherever I do find it I cherish it in another brother or sister THAT’S divine. Submission to THAT comes naturally, I could not resist the Spirit of love and care in Him I would be drawn like a magnet to it.

    DHK replies,
    You will find it in a good Bible-believing local church.

    Seth3 replies,

    I find it in certain individuals walking in the truth of Christ in the locality of my life. Besides can’t go to church remember? So that’s out.

    DHK quotes Seth3
    I see you say things about “Catholics and the like”. I have said NOTHING, I simply posted a post from another site stating it was not mine, and I put it up here for debate because I found it interesting.

    DHK replies
    That is your problem. You posted it as if it is yours, and as if you accept its doctrine as gospel truth. If you don't accept it, then don't post it. Why be deceptive? I reply to your post and your beliefs as you post to them. When a Catholic posts I respond to Catholic beliefs as they post them.

    Seth3 replies,
    Its not my problem, I’m calling your contradiction.
    And I never posted it as it was mine. For all to see I said it was a copy paste for discussion only.
    You assume too much. I love varying views they help me grow in Christ. I don’t sit stagnant in the same pool of water. The river moves. Its living water.
    You have to get used to me I don’t label people. I see them as people so I don’t disconnect their humanity from my heart and harden myself to them.

    DHK says,
    You obviously post what you believe in. Otherwise you would not post it. And I say again, don't post what you don't believe. Don't be a liar and deliberately deceptive.

    Seth3 says,
    Not really DHK. I can take bits of truth from anywhere I’m not partial or bias that way. I might not agree with 30% of something but I agree with 50% and am “unsure” on 20% I don’t write someone off for that reason. They are human. Being in Christ doesn’t mean getting it right it means walking in love.

    Someone can KNOW all the mysteries and have all the knowledge and have not love and be absolutely NOTHING. Love is the definer and fruit of God. Without that fruit it shows complete lack of evidence of God in ones heart.
    DHK QUOTES SETH3

    This person is not speaking to you DHK we all know you know the truth and are walking in the love of God … But you are perceiving this directly to you. Something inside of you is bringing this to you. When YOU speak “in general” your not speaking to the people on the board are you? Unless your directly speaking to a person.

    DHK replies,

    You are wrong here. He is speaking to me, and all who are on the internet. He spreads his heretical beliefs to all who come across his website which is very unfortunate. When I use the pronoun "you" I usually use it in a generic sense meaning all, unless I am directly addressing you, in which case I believe you would know it, for I would use your name in the same sentence or context. But usually it is in a generic sense.

    Seth3 replies,

    Gods sword is powerful if you believe its not for you then you cannot receive it, but if it was for you then receive it.

    You cant be lashing out at falseness and not allow others to voice the same things. YOU speak against that which you yourself are convinced are wrong, this person shares the same liberty as yourself. I felt no condemnation from it. I consider myself a minister unto others (not in the formal letter of the word) but in the Spirit, ministering to others needs spiritually.

    DHK says

    Your posting the article is an indication that you believe what you post. You are responsible for what you post. I took the post apart as I did to show how inflammatory it was, and how heretical it is. It does not show the love of Christ. It demeans others. It is slanderous. And it is heretical in its doctrines. Why because it uses an allegorical gnostic method of approaching the Bible.

    Seth3 replies,

    Others post from others sites here I was following suit. How about Virgin mary on a cheese sandwhich are they responsible for believing it as well? Com on now, that’s unfair.

    I see nothing wrong with Alegories I posted scripture showing “likenesses” or comparisons listed over 650 times in scriputure plus MANY MANY MORE other words showing allegories similitudes, parables, types, shadows, paterns, images etc. listed in scripture itself. Whatever Gnostic is I hope one day you’ll define it and then show me scripture on how I am this thing then show me how its wrong.

    God Bless

    Seth3
     
  16. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68
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    Is Jesus Christ not one distinct person? Are we not joined with Him as one body of Christians? Then are we not one Church in that sense?

    Are men not individuals? Do we not prefer to associate and join with those who believe and practice similarly to that which we do? Then are we not multiple churches in that sense?

    We need to find brothers and sisters with whom we can worship, learn, and fellowship for mutual benefit and common honor to our Lord. Who wants to spend our time arguing at church?

    Some of us believe that individual local churches are the way to best accomplish this and that this is based in scripture. (This is my belief.) Others believe larger churches are best and this is also based in scripture.

    I doubt we will be of one particular order or another in Heaven. I don't expect the Lord to ask whether or not I was a [insert your denomination here] when I see Him. We shouldn't make too much of our earthly choices. There's much more of far greater importance to focus upon.
     
  17. Seth3

    Seth3
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    Amen Dragoon,
    I simply believe the goal of our faith is Love. How much more single in focus can you get.

    Faith expressing itself in love. Mercy, not sacrifice. All the law and the prophets hang on loving God and your neighbor.

    These are first and foremost in Christs commands.

    God bless

    Seth3
     
  18. Curious George

    Curious George
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    This is for DHK:

    On the home page of Baptist Board, it states: "We believe that open and honest exchange of ideas can be beneficial to all participants." Seth3 clearly states that he found the letter on-line and copy/pasted it as a topic starter, put there for discussion purposes only. Does that not follow the stated belief of Baptist Board?

    On the Baptist Board Posting Rules, #2 SHOW GRACE TO OTHER POSTERS states: "When someone disagrees with you, discuss it, but be slow to offend"...and "please note that your words can sometimes be harsh if used in the wrong way." Contrary to this, you have said that Seth3 1)spews out venom, 2)is anti-biblical, 3)is anti-pastoral, 4)is a hypocrite, 5)harbors secretive gnosticism, 6)believes in heresy, 7) is a liar, 8)is a slanderer, 9)has a hatred of pastors, churches and church leaders, and 9)is deceptive. You even went as far as to say that "his very salvation is in question".

    On the Baptist Noard Posting Rules #4 PERSONAL ATTACKS WILL NOT BE TOLERATED states: Posts of a violent or threatening nature, either implicitly or explicitly, will be deleted and the poster's membership revoked." Contrary to this, you threatened to bring a lawsuit against Seth3 for slander.

    There is a note on the Posting Rules that states: "Unbelievers visit this site as well and when they see anger towards others in the Body of Christ, they immediately pass a bad judgement on us as a whole." It needs no explaination to see that your previous posts on this subject show disregard for this note.

    As a Mediator (defn--the officer who presides over an assembly to preserve order...), it is your responsibility to prevent the very things you are actually doing yourself. I have not found any posts that contain the amount of name-calling that yours do. At the very least, it is unprofessional for a member of the Baptist Board "staff" to behave in such a manner.

    Just my opinion,

    G.
     
  19. DHK

    DHK
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    George,
    I am sorry if I have offended you. Seth has been continually posting false doctrine. I am in a position to refute that. False doctrine cannot stand unchecked. I do my best to attack the doctrine and not the person. Sometimes it is difficult. I am not perfect.
    DHK
     
  20. Seth3

    Seth3
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    Thank you G for standing kindly by me. God bless you and He will.

    DHK I'm finished on the board.

    Goodbye.

    Seth3
     

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