Historic Baptist Beliefs on the Resurrection and Judgment

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by OldRegular, Jan 1, 2006.

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Historic Baptist Beliefs on the Resurrection and Judgment

  1. These old Saints were ignorant of Scripture simply waiting for the revelation of John Nelson Darby t

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  2. These old Saints were correct in interpreting Scripture as teaching a general resurrection and judgm

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  1. OldRegular

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    Historically Baptists have believed in a general resurrection and judgment: Scripture tells us:

    John 5;28, 29, KJV
    28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


    Historic Baptist doctrine is that there will be a general resurrection and judgment as shown in the following paragraphs.

    Abstract of Ptinciples

    When the original charter of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary was adopted in 1858, it contained the following statement which continues as a part of the “fundamental laws.” Every professor of the institution shall be a member of a regular Baptist church; and all persons accepting professorships in this seminary shall be considered, by such acceptance, as engaging to teach in accordance with, and not contrary to, the Abstract of Principles hereinafter laid down, a departure from which principles on his part shall be considered grounds for his resignation or removal by the Trustees, to wit:

    Articles I. thru 18 not posted

    XIX. The Resurrection
    The bodies of men after death return to dust, but their spirits return immediately to God—the righteous to rest with Him; the wicked, to be reserved under darkness to the judgment. At the last day, the bodies of all the dead, both just and unjust, will be raised.

    XX. The Judgment
    God hath appointed a day, wherein He will judge the world by Jesus Christ, when every one shall receive according to his deeds; the wicked shall go into everlasting punishment; the righteous, into everlasting life.


    The Second London Confession [1677]

    Chapter XXXI. Of the State of Man after Death and of the Resurrection of the Dead [page 293, Baptist Confessions of Faith by Lumpkin]

    “1. The Bodies of Men after Death return to dust and see corruption; but their souls [which neither die nor sleep] having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them; the Souls of the righteous then being made perfect in holiness, are received into Paradise where they are with Christ, and behold the face of God in light and glory; waiting for the full redemption of their bodies; and the souls of the wicked, are cast into hell; where they remain in torment and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day; besides these two places for Souls separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledgeth none.

    2. At the last day such of the Saints as are found alive shall not sleep but shall be changed; and all the dead shall be raised up with the self same bodies, and none other; although with different qualities, which shall be reunited with their Souls again forever.

    3. The bodies of the unjust shall by the power of Christ be raised to dishonour; the bodies of the just by His Spirit unto honour, and be made conformable to His own glorious body.”


    Chapter XXXII. Of the Last Judgment [page 294]

    “1. God hath appointed a Day wherein He will judge the world in Righteousness, by Jesus Christ; to Whom all power and judgment is given of the Father; in which Day not only the Apostate Angels shall be judged; but likewise all persons that have lived upon the Earth, shall appear before the tribunal of Christ; to give an account of their thoughts, Words, and Deeds, and to receive according to what they have done in the body, whether good or evil.

    2. The end of Gods appointing this Day is for the manifestation of the glory of His Mercy, in the Eternal Salvation of the Elect, and of His Justice in the Eternal damnation of the Reprobate who are wicked and disobedient; for then shall the Righteous go into everlasting life, and receive the fullness of Joy, and Glory, with everlasting reward in the presence of the Lord; but the wicked who know not God, and obey not the Gospel of Jesus Christ, shall be cast into Eternal torments, and punished with everlasting destruction, from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power.

    3. As Christ would have us to be certainly persuaded that there shall be a Day of judgment, both to deter all men from sin and for greater consolation of the godly, in their adversity; so will he have that day unknown to Men, that they may shake off all carnal security, and be always watchful, because they know not at what hour, the Lord will come; and may ever be prepared to say, Come Lord Jesus, Come quickly, Amen.”


    The New Hampshire Confession [1833]

    Article XVIII. Of the World to Come [page 367, Lumpkin]

    “We believe that the end of this world is approaching: that at the last day, Christ will descend from heaven, and raise the dead from the grave to final retribution; that a solemn separation will then take place; that the wicked will be adjudged to endless punishment and the righteous to endless joy; and that this judgment will fix forever the final state of men in heaven or hell, on principles of righteousness.”
     
  2. OldRegular

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    Is it that everyone on this Forum agrees with Scripture and historic Baptist Doctrine or are they hiding their light under a bushel?
     
  3. Grasshopper

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    Is the resurrection of John 5:28 different than the one in verse 25?

    Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
     
  4. OldRegular

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    Verse 5:25 is talking about the Spiritual resurrection, the New Birth, Regeneration of that which was spiritually dead; whic term suits you best.

    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    Ephesians 2:1-6, NKJV
    1. And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
    2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
    3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
    4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
    5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
    6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
     
  5. OldRegular

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    Well we have at least 6 Baptists on this Forum! :D
     
  6. av1611jim

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    Your "confessions" pull absolutely no weight with me.

    I couldn't help noticing that there is a glaring absence of Scripture in those "confessions."

    I also couldn't help noticing the obviously inflammatory manner in which the poll was worded.

    Reminds me of CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc...They like to word THEIR polls in a manner which will garauntee results in their favour.

    Now, should the pollster like an honest exchange, he/she should pm me and we'll give it a go...!

    Otherwise, go preach to your OWN choir.
     
  7. StraightAndNarrow

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    These confessions and also probably either the 1925 or 1963 SBC Baptist Faith and Message are generally recognized as the most important statements of the Baptist faith. Of course, included in them is the generally held belief in the Priesthood of the Believer and Soul Freedom.

    I would agree with you that the descriptives tilting this poll towards the traditional position need to be taken out to produce a fair result. Maybe I'll take a shot at that tomorrow.
     
  8. OldRegular

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    First, they are not my confessions.

    Second, if you are truly interested in the Scripture proofs go to the following:

    http://www.grace.org.uk/faith/bc1689/1689bc00.html

    There is certainly no proof in Scripture for the error of Darby's and Scofield's Dispensationalism.
     
  9. OldRegular

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    We now have at least 8 Baptists on this Forum.
     
  10. rozy

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    Fighting the divisive fight.

    Troll on...
     
  11. OldRegular

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    Look on the bright side, perhaps it is just trying to get Baptists to return to "the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." [Jude 1:3]

    God said in Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not;

    God speaking through the prophet Jeremiah also tells us [Jeremiah 6:16 ]:

    Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

    Either the theology of these old Baptist Saints was unbiblical or the liberal dispensational theology of Darby/Scofield is unbiblical. I believe that Darby/Scofield dispensational theology is a disaster.
     
  12. Mel Miller

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    A "General" Resurrection?

    quote:
    ------------------------------------------------
    Historically Baptists have believed in a general resurrection and judgment: Scripture tells us:

    John 5;28, 29, KJV
    28 Marvel not at this: for the (an hour) hour
    is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice.
    -----------------------------------------------

    In order to argue for a "general" doctrine of
    the Resurrection, it is necessary to prove the
    "first resurrection" is a spiritual RATHER than
    a physical, bodily resurrection.

    John 5:25 is a spiritual resurrection; but "an hour" in 5:28 for a physical resurrection of the
    righteous and "another hour" for resurrecting
    the unrighteous is implied by the absence of
    the definite article "the".

    In Rev.20:5, the definite article appears four
    times, "The Resurrection, The First" in verse
    five and again in verse six. The distinction is made between THE physical resurrection of the dead in Christ and THE resurrection of "the
    rest of the dead" when the 1000 years "should
    be finished"!

    Verse four shows that the Martyrs lived and
    reigned with Christ for 1000 years . . . by
    using the aorist tense, indicative mood.

    "But the rest of the dead lived NOT (still
    aorist indicative) UNTIL THE 1000 YEARS
    SHOULD BE FINISHED"! The sudden change from aorist indicative for the rest of the dead to the subjunctive mood reveals the "second death" is 1000 years after the FIRST RESURRECTION!!

    The absence of "THE" article in John 5:28
    but its appearance four times in Rev.20:5-6
    *allows* two phases for the resurrection just
    as the change from the aorist indicative to
    the aorist subjunctive *requires* the two
    phases be separated by 1000 years!

    Baptists have discovered, by recent studies
    in the Greek Tenses, that their much earlier
    confessions were correct in not using the
    word "general" when interpreting John 5:28.

    The "last day", in God's mind, is a 1000-Year
    period of time in order to accommodate His
    infinite thoughts to our finite minds. Peter
    states 1000 years to God is like "DAY ONE" to
    us (2 Peter 3:8; Greek text).

    That 1000-Year Day of the Lord will come as a "thief in the night" since the "DAY of the Lord and Day of God" has no reference to the passage of time. 2 Peter 3:10,12. The coming
    as a "thief" applies to two groups: those who
    perish at the S. C. and those who become the
    Goat Nations that Satan deceives when the
    1000 years "should be finished" (subjunctive)
    and he "should be loosed (subjunctive) for a short time".

    Mel Miller Junior www.lastday.net
     
  13. OldRegular

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    Mel

    A futile exercize in Semantic Engineering.
     
  14. Mel Miller

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    OldRegular,

    quote from a "retired engineer":
    _________________________________________
    "A futile exercize in Semantic Engineering".
    _________________________________________

    My response - But better perhaps than your ability to spell the word "exercise". And
    maybe not as bad as you have charged, i.e,
    that my viewpoint is "completely wrong" !!

    Mel Miller Junior www.lastday.net
     
  15. OldRegular

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    If you can base a false theology on the difference between the hour when all in the graves shall hear His voice and an hour when all in the graves shall hear His voice then I am entitled to hit the z key rather than the s key.
     
  16. Mel Miller

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    OldRegular,

    The Baptist Confessions do not refer to a
    "general" resurrection and therefore I do
    not teach a "false theology" as you charge.

    The text and context of Rev.20:4-15 requires
    1000 years separates the "First Resturrection"
    for Believers from among the dead and a final
    resurrection for the "rest of the dead".

    In your fulminations against me, you have not
    once supported your theology that the "second death" occurs at the *same* time as the "First
    Resurrection". You must be an Amillennialist!!

    If so, you are way outside the mainstream of
    Evangelical Bible Believers.

    Mel Miller Junior www.lastday.net
     
  17. OldRegular

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    You obviously need to read the confessions again and again until you understand that they do teach both a general resurrection and general judgment.

    What was the First Resurrection recorded in Scripture? Who has part in the First Resurrection? When you can answer these two questions correctly perhaps you will understand Revelation 20.

    Amillennialism is the historic doctrine of Baptists and is the Biblical doctrine of end time events. It is the dispensational error that is outside the mainstream of Bible believers. You need to broaden your learning.

    By the way I did not realize that my attempt to enlighten you as to your false doctrine was in any way violent! :D
     
  18. OldRegular

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    Dispensationalists pride themselves on a literal interpretation of Scripture. One of the most controversial passages of Scripture is Revelation 20:4-6. The passage is as follows:

    Revelation 20:4-6, KJV
    4. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    5. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
    6. Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


    How do dispensationalists interpret this passage? We look first at verse 4:

    They declare that it teaches a pre tribulation rapture of the Church which of necessity includes the resurrection of the deceased Saints. Now who or what is pictured in this passage?

    1. First John sees thrones. These thrones are occupied but their occupants are not immediately identified. Now we may conclude without doubt that these thrones represent power and those who occupy them have power, the power to judge.

    2. Second John sees souls. John does not say he sees resurrected, glorified bodies but he sees souls.

    3. Who are these souls? John provides an explanation. He states that these are the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands.

    In light of the dispensationalist claim that this passage describes the pretribulation rapture/resurrection we must ask the question: If this rapture/resurrection precedes the “Grreat Tribulation” why are these souls described as those who

    a. were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God.
    b. which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image,
    c. neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands.

    Now the dispensationalist tells us that the beast and the mark of the beast are events that occur during the “grreat tribulation”. Therefore, using the literal dispensational hermeneutic, these souls must have been present during the “grreat tribulation”, defied the beast, and as a result lost their heads. We can conclude, therefore, using the dispensational hermeneutic of literal interpretation, that these events described in verse 20:4 have nothing to do with a so called “pre tribulation rapture”, what they call the First Resurrection.

    Discussion of Verse 20:5 to follow later.
     
  19. Squire Robertsson

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    I am a Baptist. But, I won't vote in a rigged poll. An answer, one way or the other, insults one generation or the other.
     
  20. Mel Miller

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    OldRegular,

    If, after several exchanges, you are FINALLY
    explaining why you accuse me of advocating a
    "false theology" and that I am "completely wrong," I FIND MYSELF IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT
    with what you have posted on Rev.20:4 at
    7:55 PM on Jan.7.

    I'm still waiting for any evidence to back
    up your unkind, incorrect and botched
    assessment of what I believe.

    You have NOT given evidence, by quoting John
    5:28, that the Baptist Confession necessarily teaches a "general" resurrection!!

    Mel Miller Junior www.lastday.net
     

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