History of Dispensational Theology and Israel

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Humblesmith, Jan 15, 2006.

  1. Humblesmith

    Humblesmith
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    I was saved in a dispensational church, and was a member of two of them for 18 years. During that time, I did not once hear taught several of the doctrines that are often said to be widespread in dispensationalism. Recently, I read from several sources that dispensationalism teaches two salvations: one for the gentiles, and a different one for the Jews in Israel. While I'm sure there are some extreme dispensationalists who believe this, I found the idea to be rather shocking, and if true, would likely qualify as heresy.

    Therefore I purchased the Systematic Theology by Lewis Sperry Chafer, who was the founder of Dallas Theological Seminary, one of the largest seminaries in the world, and the largest one that teaches dispensationalism. DTS graduates somewhere around 600 to 800 people a year, going back some 70 years or so. Chafer's Systemaic Theology has been taught at DTS since it was written over 50 years ago. If anywhere there was "mainstream" teaching of dispensationalism, it would be here. So here are some quotes from Chafer:


    "the individual Jew is now divinely reckoned to be as much in need of salvation as the individual Gentile (Rom. 3:9). These facts, related as they are to the present age-purpose—the calling out of the Church from both Jews and Gentiles alike (Eph. 3:6)—have no bearing upon the divine purpose for the coming kingdom age when, according to covenant promise, Israel will be saved and dwell safely in her own land (Deut. 30:3–6; Jer. 28:5–6; 33:15–17)."
    (Vol. 3, Page 105.)

    "it is also as clearly stated that no blood could ever avail for any remission of sin other than the blood of Christ. We conclude, therefore, that the nation Israel will yet be saved and her sins removed forever through the blood of Christ."
    (Vol. 3, Page 107.)

    "God is righteously free to act in behalf of sinners only on the ground of the fact that the Lamb of God has taken away their sins. A major objective in the death of Christ is, therefore, the national salvation of Israel."
    (Vol. 3, Page 108.)

    "National election, too often confused with individual election (note the Apostle’s warning to the nation Israel on this point as recorded in Rom. 9:4–13), anticipates no more than the ultimate blessing of Israel as a nation and their national preservation unto that end. Ahab and Jezebel along with Abraham and Sarah, were partakers alike in Israel’s national election. However, a judgment day for Israel is predicted when multitudes will be rejected (Ezek. 20:33–44; Dan. 12:1–3). There is, nonetheless, a recognition in the Bible of a spiritual remnant in all Israel’s generations; but that spiritual group shared no additional covenants, their distinction being due to their willingness to be more faithful to those relations to Jehovah which were the privileges extended to all in Israel. The remnant out of Israel in this age is “a remnant according to the election of grace” (Rom. 11:5), and is composed of those who are saved by faith in Christ, and therefore partake of the heavenly calling which pertains to the Church. It is not until a Deliverer comes out of Zion that all Israel will be saved (Rom. 11:27), and that salvation will not only be unto the realization of all their national, earthly covenants, but also unto the taking away of their sins (cf. Jer. 31:34). In the present time, as above stated, only a remnant out of Israel are being saved as individuals, which is according to the divine election in grace and unto the heavenly glory of the Church."
    (Vol. 3, Page 189-190.)

    "The receiving of eternal life will be for Israelites, as it is in the case of the Christian, a feature of salvation itself; and salvation for Israel is, in Romans 11:26–32, declared to be after the present age-purpose of the fulness of the Gentiles which is now accompanied by Israel’s blindness (verse 25), and at the time when “there shall come out of Sion the Deliverer,” who shall “turn away ungodliness from Jacob.” “This,” Jehovah says, “is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.” Isaiah anticipates the same great moment of Israel’s salvation when he predicts that a nation shall be born “at once.”"
    (Vol. 4, Page 26.)

    "There is great force added to the whole program of Israel’s regathering, repentance, restoration, salvation, and realization of her covenants, when, by the proper elimination of the present age, these are seen to follow directly upon the rejection of their King."
    (Vol. 4, Page 321-322.)


    Again, these quotes are from what could be called the most influential dispensational teacher of the last 100 years. I maintain that this is mainstream dispensationalism, not the extreme views that are sometime painted as dispensational.

    Putting these quotes together, Chafer is saying that in the future, most of the nation of Israel will repent at once, believe in Christ, and be saved by Jesus' blood. The last quote specifically mentions repentance. Therefore, while I admit there may be some that call themselves dispensational that would hold to two salvations, this does not represent the bulk of dispensational teachings in the last 70 years. Two salvations was never taught by Chafer.

    I am starting this post with the narrow purpose of defining what was taught about Israel & salvation, not any of the myraid of other things that have been beat to death on here in the past.
     
  2. Grasshopper

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    So we are still waiting on the New Covenant of Jer. 33? If so, then what New Covenant did jesus establish?
     
  3. exscentric

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    The two methods of salvation came from the original editon of Scofield's reference Bible in which he made a quite unfortunate wording mistake that indicated this. The note was changed in the next edition. He did not believe in two methods.
     
  4. EdSutton

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    Humblesmith wrote re the late Lewis Sperry Chafer and "Systematic THeology" this:
    "If anywhere there was "mainstream" teaching of dispensationalism, it would be here."
    I dunno, Myself, I was always partial to a coupla or three authors including Dr. Luke, Saul Paul, and Cephas Simon Peter, in a set of books including 'Luke', 'I Corinthians', 'Ephesians', 'Collosians', and 'I Peter'. Granted it is an older collection but easily available, and under the brilliant General Editor, the Holy Spirit, is more up to date than some much newer offerings.
    Heh! Heh!

    Does tend to show how the Bible sheds a lot of light on theology and commentaries now don't it?

    Personally, one of my alltime favorite songs goes like this:
    "My hope is built on nothing less, than Scofield's notes and Moody Press..."
    Ed
     
  5. Humblesmith

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    Cute rhyme. I got a chuckle out of it.

    But my purpose was only in responding to an accusation that dispensationalism, as a whole, teaches two modes of salvation. If we count the mere numbers of pastors trained in dispensationalism, Chafer's system is by far the largest, and therefore the most common. And the accusation that dispensationalism teaches two modes of salvation is not correct, at least in this regard. It teaches only one, namely by grace through faith in Jesus.

    We may disagree whether Chafer's theology or dispensationalism is accurate, but we cannot say they taught two modes of salvation.
     
  6. Me4Him

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    I "suppose" you could call it "Modes", Israel won't believe without "signs and wonders" and Jesus won't give any.

    Israel rejected the "VOICE OF JESUS", which is also the "Holy Ghost", therefore they are blinded until Jesus's ministry to the "gentiles" is finished. (fulness of Gentiles/Church/rapture)

    Israel will then go back under the "law and prophets" system of leadership for the trib period, the "Two witnesses", Moses/Elijah, (law/Prophet) will return along with many "Signs and wonders" which the Jew require to believe.

    The "law and prophets" system stopped when Jesus came and won't return until Jesus leaves, (Pre trib rapture)

    Leadership by both "L/P" and "HG" do not function at the same time, in the same time frame, this is why Israel is blinded until HG/church leaves.

    But either way, salvation is only through/by "JESUS".
     
  7. Grasshopper

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    [​IMG]
     
  8. genesis12

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    After National Israel rejected their Messiah and His Kingdom, the Good News was taken to the gentiles, Acts 9. From that point on, in the church age, Jew or gentile could be saved through faith in Christ (as recorded in John 1:11, John 3:16-17, John 14:6, Romans 10:8-13, and "The Roman Road" plan of salvation.) There remained the restoration of the Kingdom Promise for National Israel, following the tribulation and the Second Coming. The question remains: How many Jews will survive the tribulation? Have you run the numbers?
     
  9. genesis12

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    I'll start a new topic for my question, quoted here:

    genesis12
     
  10. OldRegular

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    Could you quote some Scripture proving the above statement?
     
  11. genesis12

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    Took me a few years to understand and make the switch. Suffice it to say that I'd have to quote scriptures beginning in Genesis and ending in Revelation! There are lots of websites that already do that, and then there is Dr. Ryrie and the Dallas Theological Seminary ~~ lots of information sources! I'll leave it up to them.
     
  12. Me4Him

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    genesis12 </font>[/QUOTE]Ever how many runs to the mountains when they see the "abomination of desolation".

    Mr 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

    15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:

    16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.

    "Possibly", Seven thousand???


    1Ki 19:10 And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.

    1Ki 19:18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, (antichrist) and every mouth which hath not kissed him.
     
  13. Bro Tony

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    There certainly are those who hold a dispensational view who also hold to a dual covenant theology. While I believe in a futurist view and am dispensational, I believe clearly what the Bible teaches in Romans 1: 16-

    "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek."

    To teach two covenants or ways to salvation is to completely disregard that the first church was almost entirely made up of Jewish believers. It is also to teach that Jesus is not the Messiah for the Jewish people. It would also deny that Peter, John, Paul et al where saved by grace through faith.

    Though some in my opinion irroneously believe in dual covenant theology and those are dispensational does not mean all do.

    Dispensational theology does not equal dual covenant theology.

    Bro Tony
     
  14. Rhetorician

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    Try this on for size:

    It seems to me that the two systems, convenantal vs dispensational have two views of salvation as they do Israel and the church.

    The Dispensational view holds that the "Kingdom" is the most important thing. Being a believer in Jesus only gets one into this kingdom.

    Whereas, covenantal theology is only concerned with Christ and him crucified. God has only had one plan, not salvation in order to get in to the kingdom. He only wants to glorify his son in his full and final atonement.

    This would keep God from having to have "two peoples," a heavenly people and an earthly people.

    Have I shown my bias and prejudice?

    Maybe!!??

    sdg!

    rd
     
  15. Humblesmith

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    uh.....I think I understand what you're saying....(I think...). And if so, I think you're stretching the rubber band all the way around the block just to get next door. It's a bit of a long stretch.
     
  16. Brother James

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    www.fpcjackson.org

    Dispensationalism
    COVENANT THEOLOGY

    1. May be Arminian or modified Calvinist. Almost never 5-point Calvinist.

    2. Stresses 'literal' interpretation of the Bible.

    3. Usually does not accept the idea of the 'Analogy of Faith.'

    4. 'Israel' always means only the literal, physical descendants of Jacob.

    5. Israel of God' in Gal. 6:16 means physical Israel alone.

    6. God has 2 peoples with 2 separate destinies: Israel (earthly) and the Church (heavenly).

    7. The Church was born at Pentecost.

    8. The Church was not prophesied as such in the O.T. but was a hidden mystery until the N.T.

    9. All O.T. prophecies for' Israel , are for literal Israel, not the Church.

    10. God's main purpose in history is literal Israel.

    11. The Church is a parenthesis in God's program for the ages.

    12. The main heir to Abraham's covenant was Isaac and literal Israel.

    13. There was no eternal Covenant of Redemption within the Trinity.

    14. There was no Covenant of Works with Adam in the Garden of Eden.

    15. There was no Covenant of Grace concerning Adam.

    16. Israel was rash to accept the Covenant at Mt. Sinai.

    17. The 'New Covenant' of Jer. 31:31- 34 is only for literal Israel and is not the New Covenant of Lk. 22:20

    18. God's program in history is mainly through separate dispensations.

    19. Some Dispensationalists have said that O.T. sinners were saved by works.

    20. Most Dispensationalists teach that men in the O.T. were saved by faith in a revelation peculiar to their Dispensation, but this did not include faith in the Messiah as their sin-bearer.

    21. The O.T. sacrifices were not recognized as the Gospel or types of the Messiah as sin-bearer, but only seen as such in retrospect.

    22. The Holy Spirit indwells only believers in the Dispensation of Grace, not O.T. and not after the Rapture.

    23. Jesus made an offer of the literal Kingdom to Israel; since Israel rejected it, it is postponed.

    24. O.T. believers were not 'in Christ,' nor part of the Body or Bride of Christ.

    25. The Law has been abolished.

    26. O.T. laws are no longer in effect unless repeated in the N.T.

    27. The Millennium is the Kingdom of God Dispensationalists are always Pre-Millennial and usually Pre-Tribulational.

    28. The O.T. animal sacrifices will be restored in the Millennium.

    29. The Millennium will fulfill the Covenant to Abraham. Israel has a future.

    30. David will sit on the Millennial throne in Jerusalem.










    1. Always Calvinist. Usually 5 point.

    2. Accepts both literal and figurative interpretation of the Bible.

    3. Almost always accepts the idea of the 'Analogy of Faith.'

    4. 'Israel' may mean either literal, physical descendants of Jacob or the figurative, spiritual Israel, depending on context.

    5. 'Israel of God' in Gal. 6:16 means spiritual Israel, parallel to Gal. 3:29, Rom. 2:28-29, 9:6, Phil. 3:3.

    6. God has always had only 1 people, the Church gradually developed.

    7. The Church began in the O.T. (Acts 7:38) and reached fulfillment in the N.T.

    8. There are many O.T. prophecies of the N.T. Church.

    9. Some O.T. prophecies are for literal Israel, others are for spiritual Israel.

    10. God's main purpose in history is Christ and secondarily the Church.

    11. The Church is the culmination of God's saying purpose for the ages.

    12. The main heir to Abraham's covenant was Christ and spiritual Israel.

    13. The eternal Covenant of Redemption was within the Trinity to effect election.

    14. God made a conditional Covenant of Works with Adam as representative for all his posterity.

    15. God made a Covenant of Grace with Christ and His people, including Adam

    16. Israel was right to accept the Covenant at Mt. Sinai.

    17. The 'New Covenant' of Jer. 31 is the same as in Lk. 22; both are for spiritual Israel according to Heb. 8.

    18. God's program in history is mainly through related covenants.

    19. No man has ever been saved by works, but only by grace.

    20. All men who have ever been saved have been saved by faith in Christ as their sin-bearer, which has been progressively revealed in every age.

    21. O.T. believers believed in the Gospel of Messiah as sin-bearer mainly by the sacrifices as types and prophecies.

    22. The Holy Spirit has indwelt believers in all ages, especially in the present N.T. era, and will not be withdrawn.

    23. Jesus made only an offer of the spiritual Kingdom, which was rejected by literal Israel but has gradually been accepted by spiritual Israel.

    24. Believers in all ages are all 'in Christ' and part of the Body and Bride of Christ.

    25. The Law has 3 uses: to restrain sin in society, to lead to Christ, and to instruct Christians in godliness. The ceremonial laws have been abolished; the civil laws have been abolished except for their general equity; the moral laws continue.

    26. O.T. laws are still in effect unless abrogated in the N.T.

    27. The Church is the Kingdom of God. Covenanters are usually Amillennial , sometimes Pre-Millennial or Post-Millennial, rarely Pre-Tribulational.

    28. The O.T. sacrifices were fulfilled and forever abolished in Christ.

    29. Christ fulfilled the Covenant to Abraham. Some Covenanters believe in a future for literal Israel, most don't.

    30. Christ alone sits on the throne. Saints rule under Him.
     
  17. OldRegular

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    That is a cop out! :D :D :D

    By the way I have read Ryrie. He doesn't answer the question either. He can't. :D :D :D
     
  18. OldRegular

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    Brother James

    Good post!

    I have a couple of questions which bother me and perhaps some dispensationalists would be gracious enough to answer.

    Your point #6 above: God has 2 peoples with 2 separate destinies: Israel (earthly) and the Church (heavenly).

    My 1st question is: Since the millennial kingdom lasts only 1000 years and then God creats a new heaven and new earth because the first heaven and first earth are done away with [Revelation 21:1], what happens to Israel, the earthly people, since Revelation 21, 22 clearly teach that this is the eternal home of the Church, the bride of Jesus Christ?

    Your point #23 above: Jesus made an offer of the literal Kingdom to Israel; since Israel rejected it, it is postponed.

    My 2nd question is: If this is true how could Jesus Christ say in John 17:4 I have finished the work which thou gvest me to do?

    If some kind dispensationalist out there could answer these two questions perhaps I can pose some more.
     
  19. LadyEagle

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    Hi, Old Reg. Me again. [​IMG]

    They will be included at that time in the eternal home called New Jerusalem because the Bible says that one day "all of Israel will be saved."

    They may have the same status as the OT Saints, not part of the Bride of Christ, but clearly part of the New Jerusalem. Hope that helps.
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Grasshopper

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    But of course scripture says the New Jerusalem is the Church.

    Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
     

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