Hmmm, I think I need to get a Geneva Bible!

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Spoudazo, Mar 9, 2005.

  1. Spoudazo

    Spoudazo
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    One of the reasons is some of the great notes in it. I wish Baptist preachers had this kind of "grit" to them these days! :eek:

    First, Rev. 9:11 from the Geneva,
    GNV Revelation 9:11 And they haue a King ouer them, which is the Angel of the bottomlesse pit, whose name in Hebrewe is Abaddon, and in Greeke he is named Apollyon, that is, destroying.

    . . .and their note. . .
    "Which is Antichrist the Pope, king of hypocrites, and Satans ambassadour."
    [​IMG]
     
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Great Bible, super notes, available free from e-sword.
     
  3. Spoudazo

    Spoudazo
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    I have it on BibleWorks 5.0, but I don't think they have these user notes in them.

    It just says in the auto-info window,
    "There is no auto-info data for this version and/or word."
     
  4. av1611jim

    av1611jim
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    __________________________________________________

    This is EXACTLY why their notes are suspect. Any fool knows the angel of the bottomless pit is satan himself, NOT the pope.
    BTW; the Geneva is chock full of Calvinistic notes which are also suspect. You will note it was done in Geneva, the "bottomless pit" of Calvinism and the home of one of the most intolerant State-churches of the Reformation.

    IF, as the anti-KJVoists contend, the KJV is less than perfect due to the Anglican bent of its translators, then it is ALSO true of the Geneva and it's translators. :D

    Of course this will be denied, thereby exposing yet ANOTHER double standard.

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  5. Spoudazo

    Spoudazo
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    I know the GNV isn't the best version to read. However, I'm sure I would like a lot of its notes [​IMG]
     
  6. David J

    David J
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    Sounds as if you are a bit scorned Jim LOL!

    MVusers double standards? Please...
     
  7. MargoWriter

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    I like the way the Geneva puts a few things. I read some in American lit. class. The language is nice. But I don't know enough about it to know if I'd beel comfortable with it all the time.
     
  8. MargoWriter

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    **oops, am I bad-- beel= cross between be and feel. (My mind's still in the game forum!)
     
  9. Phillip

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    I use E-sword, but not enough to really be familiar with all of its functions.

    Are the notes for the Geneva included within the downloaded translation?

    If so, how do I get to those notes?

    Also, are they the original translator's notes or a later day commentator?

    Thanks
     
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    I think they are original - the spellin indicates that. They are listed under "commentaries" in e-swords download page.
     
  11. Logos1560

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    Where is the evidence of your claim? One or two or even a few examples would not prove your claim that it is "chock full of Calvinistic notes." Usually one or two notes are misused to
    smear the entire Geneva Bible when the examples are not the typical, usual notes that are in it.


    Do you ignore the fact that many of the KJV
    translators were Calvinists? Do you ignore the
    great influence that Theodore Beza had on the
    KJV? Do you ignore the fact that several editions of the KJV would be printed with the notes from the Geneva Bible and that these notes
    helped the KJV win acceptance in England?
     
  12. av1611jim

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    __________________________________________________

    Sorry. I hope NO Baptist pastors has the kind of "grit" as evidenced by the "Reformers" of Geneva.

    "Farel walked beside the condemned man, and kept up a constant barrage of words,
    in complete insensitivity to what Servetus might be feeling. All he had in mind
    was to extort from the prisoner an acknowledgement [sic] of his theological error
    -- a shocking example of the soulless cure of souls. After some minutes of this,
    Servetus ceased making any reply and prayed quietly to himself.
    When they arrived at the place of execution, Farel announced to the watching crowd:
    'Here you see what power Satan possesses when he has a man in his power.
    This man is a scholar of distinction, and he perhaps believed he was acting rightly.
    But now Satan possesses him completely, as he might possess you, should you fall into his traps.'

    When the executioner began his work, Servetus whispered with trembling voice:
    'Oh God, Oh God!' The thwarted Farel snapped at him: 'Have you nothing else to say?'
    This time Servetus replied to him: 'What else might I do, but speak of God!'
    Thereupon he was lifted onto the pyre and chained to the stake.
    A wreath strewn with sulfur was placed on his head. When the faggots were ignited,
    a piercing cry of horror broke from him. 'Mercy, mercy!' he cried.
    For more than half an hour the horrible agony continued,
    for the pyre had been made of half-green wood, which burned slowly.
    'Jesus, Son of the eternal God, have mercy on me,'
    the tormented man cried from the midst of the flames ...."(11)

    11. The Heretics, p. 327.

    "Calvin had thus murdered his enemy, and there is nothing to suggest that he ever repented his crime
    [sic]. The next year he published a defence [sic] in which further insults were heaped
    upon his former adversary in most vindictive and intemperate language."(13)
    As the Roman Catholics of 1415 burned John Hus(14) at the stake over doctrine,
    John Calvin, likewise, had Michael Servetus burned at the stake.
    But was doctrine the only issue? Could there have been another reason, a political one?


    "As an 'obstinate heretic' he had all his property confiscated without more ado.
    He was badly treated in prison. It is understandable, therefore,
    that Servetus was rude and insulting at his confrontation with Calvin.
    Unfortunately for him, at this time Calvin was fighting to maintain his weakening power in Geneva.
    Calvin's opponents used Servetus as a pretext for attacking the
    Geneva Reformer's theocratic government. It became a matter of prestige --
    always the sore point for any dictatorial regime -- for Calvin to assert his power in this respect.
    He was forced to push the condemnation of Servetus with all the means at his command."(15)

    13. Michael Servetus Humanist and Martyr, p. 36. (return)
    14. John Hus attacked various Roman Catholic heresies such as transubstantiation,
    subservience to the Pope, belief in the saints, efficacy of absolution through the priesthood,
    unconditional obedience to earthly rulers and simony.
    Hus also made the Holy Scriptures the only rule in matters of religion and faith.
    See The Wycliffe Biographical Dictionary Of The Church, p. 201. (return)
    15. The Heretics, p. 326. (return)

    Calvin's Geneva has been called the "Rome of Protestantism". See Wycliffe's dictionary of the Church previously cited.
    Calvin himself has been called the "Pope of Protestantism" for this very crime he endorsed and never repented of.

    Just as the charge some would level at the AV of 1611 for its bent toward the Anglican church due to its being translated by Anglicans, so too, does the charge hold for the Geneva, as IT was translated in the Theocratic Dictatorship of Clavin's "Rome" i.e. Geneva.

    Them's the facts of history boys!!!

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  13. Scott J

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    Not the complete facts- you forgot to list Servitus heresies which would be offensive to most of us here... you also failed to mention the fact that Calvin begged him not to come to Geneva and told him in advance what would happen.
     
  14. Spoudazo

    Spoudazo
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    Oh my, that "story" is rather biased in itself.

    Thankyou Scott for your post [​IMG]

    Calvin told Servetus all he had to do was confess that Jesus is the eternal Son of God, but Servetus said something, close, but he meant something extremly different.

    As your own quote says Jim, he said, "Jesus Son of the eternal God" and with that one exclamation he basically lit himself!

    Certainly Calvin was wrong in burning him, but shall we bring up the fact that King James himself had a Baptist burned at the stake?
     
  15. TC

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    Come on now. It's much more fun to discredit it by smearing the people associated with it than to carefully evaluate the Bible on its own merits. Of course, that happens on both sides. Either way, it is wrong.
     
  16. Ransom

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    Calvin's opponents used Servetus as a pretext for attacking the
    Geneva Reformer's theocratic government. . . .

    Them's the facts of history boys!!!


    Not exactly "facts," by a long stretch. Calvin was the pastor of Geneva. He was not part of any "theocratic government," and in fact, at the time Servetus was executed, the civil government was antagonistic toward him. As a resident alien, he didn't even have the right to vote, let alone govern the city. He was only tolerated as pastor because there wasn't a qualified local, and the only power to punish he had was the exercise of church discipline, which typically meant being banned from communion.

    Calvin visited Servetus a number of times in jail and urged him to recant his heresies. He refused. So he urged the civil authorities to execute him in a more humane form than burning. They refused. Servetus was burned at the stake because the Geneva city council wanted to torque Calvin and horn in on the church's business, not vice versa. Calvin's view of separation of church and state was probably the most progressive one of the day.

    Don't know what this has to do with the Bible, but it seems that there are a number of persons so pathologically opposed to anything that even whiffs of the Reformation that they will slander its leaders if you so much as pull out a Swiss army knife.
     
  17. av1611jim

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    __________________________________________________

    Thank you TC. At least YOU got my point. :D

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  18. Scott J

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    Jim, Your point is moot.

    No one here is claiming that Calvin or anyone else associated with the Geneva Bible were directly inspired to create a word for word perfect version of the Bible.

    However there are those here who claim that the text of the KJV is word for word perfect. That puts whoever was involved with whichever edition of the KJV that you happen to promote into a very exclusive category.

    If someone is going to claim that then they should be prepared to demonstrate by some measure that the translators were specially qualified. And also, they should be prepared to make a defense of their beliefs and actions that are contrary to the claim that they created a perfect English Bible text.
     
  19. av1611jim

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    Scott said,"If someone is going to claim that then they should be prepared to demonstrate by some measure that the translators were specially qualified. And also, they should be prepared to make a defense of their beliefs and actions that are contrary to the claim that they created a perfect English Bible text. "
    __________________________________________________

    Baloney! Carry your logic through to its conclusion friend. YOU say the "originals" were perfect?
    Moses = murderer
    David = murderer
    Paul = murderer
    No sir! Your conclusion is conclusively nonsense. What you have done is totally deleted the providence of God.


    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  20. TC

    TC
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    Apples and Oranges. The Bible says that those men were qualified inspite of their past. The Bible never says that the KJV translators or any other body of translators were qualified.
     

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