Holy Changes!

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Briguy, Oct 17, 2002.

  1. Briguy

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    Holy Changes was the heading of a news story last night that I saw was coming up but I guess I turned the channel and missed the story. It had to do with some changes in the Rosary. I guess I didn't realize that the Rosary was only said one way. For some reason I thought there were different versions of the Rosary used by different Catholic churches. Is the Rosary considered "doctrine" in that God dictates what is said in it? or is it just teaching and can be changed at any time. I know that the story showed a picture of the Pope so I can assume he changed the Rosary. Anyway, what's the scoop with this change.

    In Christ,
    Brian
     
  2. trying2understand

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    No, it is not doctrine. It is a prayer discipline.

    Here is a link that may help answer your questions.

    http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/16/pope.rosary/

    Actually there are many ways that one may use a rosary to assist in prayer habits. I personally enjoy praying the Chaplet of the Divine Mercy on the rosary.

    Ron

    [ October 17, 2002, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: trying2understand ]
     
  3. dumbox1

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    Hi Brian,

    The Rosary isn't "doctrine" or "teaching" or anything like that -- it's just a popular form of meditative prayer. Since it's sometimes prayed in groups, the basic structure stays pretty much the same (so everybody knows what's going on), but there are a couple different "normal" ways of saying the Rosary, and some local variations from place to place.

    Generally, the variations involve whether or not the "Fatima Prayer" ("O my Jesus, forgive us our sins. Save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy.") is included, and also some different prayers that some people use at the beginning or end.

    Of course, if you're not praying in a group, you can pray the Rosary pretty much any way you'd like (within reason, of course). Some people substitute different prayers other than the "usual" ones, meditate on different events in Christ's life other than the "usual" ones, etc.

    Those meditations, incidentally, are the heart of the Rosary. And that's what yesterday's Apostolic Letter from the Pope "changed" -- the Pope suggested, as a voluntary thing, some additional events that people might choose to meditate on, in addition to the "traditional" ones. (The "new" ones include events like Christ's baptism, the Transfiguration, etc.) Of course, some folks were already including these anyway in their personal Rosary -- the Pope's letter just makes it more likely that people will choose to do so, particularly in group settings.

    I hope that made sense -- I'm writing sort of stream-of-consciousness this morning.

    Mark H.
     
  4. Briguy

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    Mark and Ron, Thank you for clearing that up. Had I saw the story I may have understood better. When I saw the Pope was involved I thought maybe it was a "big thing". You know the way media blows things out of porportion, they made it seem like it was pretty important. I had already known that the Rosary was meditative in nature. Of course, as a non Catholic it seems funny to do repetitive prayers but I do appreciate the sincereness you two have (and others) for saying the Rosary. A Rosary prayer was posted once and most of it was very appropriate. I bet you can guess what part I struggled with :D

    Thanks again for your answers and your good attitudes [​IMG]

    In Christ our Lord,
    Brian
     
  5. dumbox1

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    Hi Brian,

    I guess whether it's a "big thing" depends on your perspective -- it's not "big" in a doctrinal sense, but it does have the potential to add to the prayer practices of a lot of folks, if they choose to adopt the Pope's suggestions.

    Personally, I probably should pray the Rosary more often than I do -- the meditative/contemplative side of my prayer life could use more attention than I usually give it, unfortunately.

    Mark
     
  6. donnA

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    I saw something about it on some christian news program an area christian staion carries, but they didn't explain it. I had hoped someone would discuss it on here, so I'd know what was going on.
    They also said the current Pope had been Pope for 25 years, I thought wow, has it been that long, I was a kid when he was made Pope, I remember he visited Chicago that next year, which is where we lived then.
     
  7. dumbox1

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    Hi Katie,

    Totally off topic ...

    A couple years ago, a theater here in Richmond did a production of "Floyd Collins," a musical about a man who was trapped in a cavern called Sand Cave in Kentucky in the 1920's.

    Is Sand Cave in your neck of the woods? (I just saw where you're from, and was curious).

    Mark
     
  8. Nimrod

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    Details of the mysteries may be found in Divine Mysteries of the Most Holy Rosary, extracts from Mystical City of God. Order from TAN Books, P.O. Box 424, Rockford, IL. 61105
     
  9. Nimrod

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    One day in 1460 Blessed Alan de la Roche was saying Mass. Our Lord, Who wished to spur him on to preach the Rosary, spoke to him from the Sacred Host: “ ‘How can you crucify Me again so soon?’ Jesus said, ‘What did you say Lord?’ asked Blessed Alan, horrified. ‘You crucified Me once before by your sins,’ answered Jesus, ‘and I would willingly be crucified again rather than have my Father offended by the sins you used to commit. You are crucifying Me again now because you have all the learning and understanding that you need to preach My Mother’s Rosary and you are not doing so. If you only did this you could teach many souls the right path and lead them away from sin – but you are not doing it and so you, yourself, are guilty of the sins that they commit.’”

    In 1481 Our Lady appeared to Venerable Dominic, the Carthusian, and said, “Whenever one who is in the state of grace says the Rosary while meditating on the mysteries of the life and passion of Jesus Christ, he obtains full and entire remission of all sins.’”

    “Our Lady said to Blessed Alan, ‘I want you to know that although there are numerous indulgenced already attached to the praying of My Rosary, I shall add many more to every fifty Hail Marys…FOR THOSE WHO PRAY THEM DEVOUTLY, ON THEIR KNEES – BEING, OF COURSE, FREE FROM MORTAL SIN. And whosoever shall persevere in the devotion of the Holy Rosary…I shall obtain for him full remission of the penalty and of the guilt of all his sins at the end of his life…It is very easy for me because I am the Mother of the King of Heaven, and He calls me full of grace…I am able to dispense freely to my children”
     
  10. trying2understand

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    Sorry to disappoint you, Nimrod.

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01246a.htm

    "Alanus published nothing during his lifetime, but immediately after his death the brethren of his province were commanded to collect his writings for publication. These were edited at different times and have occasioned much controversy among scholars. His relations of the visions and sermons of St. Dominic, supposed to have been revealed to Alanus, are not to be regarded as historical ."
     
  11. dumbox1

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    Hi T2U,

    Actually, I think you and Nimrod are talking about two different things. According to the article you linked, Alan apparently did have (or claim to have) a vision relating to the Rosary in 1460. To quote your article, "His vision of the restoration of the devotion of the Rosary is assigned to the year 1460." But that's a separate issue from any supposed visions relating to St. Dominic, as discussed in the lines you quoted. (The Dominic that Nimrod mentioned is Dominic of Prussia, a different Dominic).

    Anyhow, I'm generally not too interested in the visions (real or not) of folks in the 15th Century. Maybe it's selfish of me, but I make the decision to pray (or not) the Rosary based on whether I find it to be an effective way, for me, of coming closer to Christ through meditation. (Which it is -- although I think it'd be even more effective if I prayed that way more regularly).

    Which, come to think of it, means I'm generally in agreement with the Catholic Church's teachings regarding "private revelations" such as visions, etc.

    Mark
     
  12. Nimrod

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    A Command From Heaven:
    St. Dominic told Pope Innocent III that he had received a command from Heaven to establish the Confraternity of the Most Holy Rosary. The Holy Father gave his full approval and became a member himself. Joining this Confraternity brings more indulgences than any other. Address: Rosary Confraternity, 141 E. 65th St., N.Y., N.Y. 10021. USA

    I bet none of the Catholics here are members.
     
  13. donnA

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    Mark,
    yes, he's from only a few miles away. The cave is in Mammoth Cave National Park,(about 10 miles away), it's one of our favorite trails, you can climb down to the mouth of the cave(the trail is a little rocky but very managable). I noticed thid year they've have the trail closed down installing a wood walkway for disabled peoples to take the trail.
     
  14. dumbox1

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    Hi Nimrod,

    With your latest post, you're crossing over into the non-historical area that T2U mentioned. Historically, there's no evidence of a Rosary Confraternity prior to the 15th Century, while St. Dominic and Innocent III lived around 1200 A.D.

    (And, for the record, no, I'm not a member of a Rosary confraternity -- although I think the confraternity's U.S. office may now be in Portland, not New York).

    Mark
     
  15. Nimrod

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    I am only quoting from Roman Catholic Sources.

    It is a Leaflet and is available FREE.

    Write to Apostolate of Jesus, Mary & Joseph--GM 200 Van Brocklin Rd., St. Martinville, La. 70582 U.S.A.

    or see St. Louis de Montfort, "The Secret of the Rosary", (TAN, P.O. Box 424, Rockford, IL 61105)

    I'll take their words over yours.
     
  16. dumbox1

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    Hi Nimrod,

    It's your privilege, of course, to believe whoever you like. Personally, I'll go with the Catholic Encyclopedia (even though it is the 1913 edition that's available online) over the folks in St. Martinville, Louisiana -- nice folks though I'm sure they are.

    And, for that matter, over St. Louis de Montfort, who's not really known as an historian. But, to each his own.

    Mark
     
  17. GraceSaves

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    Nimrod,

    It has more indulgences than any other........and your point is? Indulgences are just that: something to indulge in. We don't HAVE to have them; they're simply desirable because they bring us closer to Christ. I pray the Rosary daily, not out of habit (I have to make time for it on most days), nor out of necessity, but because it's a deeply spiritual experience for me.

    You can make it look bad all you want; it's not going to change my experience.

    God bless,

    Grant
     
  18. Nimrod

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    Hello Grace saves.

    All I did is quote from Catholics sources. Don't balme me I'm just the messenger. So why say that I am trying to make it look bad?

    Mary’s Rosary Promises to St. Dominic and Blessed Alan: Whosoever shall faithfully pray My Rosary

    5. shall not perish
    7. shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church
    9. shall be delivered from purgatory.
    10. shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven.

    Sounds to me that the Rosary is very important to the Roman Catholic faith. Or at least should be.
    here is another quote

    "Our Blessed Mother appeared, says that the ROSARY AND SCAPULAR ARE INSEPARABLE, and that Our Lady wants us to use these sacramentals as devotions to Her; and if we heed Her requests, She will save the world, Russia will be converted and there will be peace!"

    Again I say that the Rosary should be a very important act of piety in the Roman Catholic faith.
     
  19. trying2understand

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    Yes, it is, as is all prayer.

    Do you not believe prayer to be an important act of piety?

    Ron
     
  20. Nimrod

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    Saying the Rosary is more than just a prayer.
    I have just shown you how much more beneficial you will be if you say them, and use the Rosary.
    There seems to be more power in the Rosary than just an ordinary prayer.

    More promises to whosoever shall faithfully pray My Rosary.
    11. Shall obtain all asked of me.

    WOW! I say. I wish all my prayers could be answered.
     

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