Holy Spirit Guidance in the Canon

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by saturneptune, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. saturneptune

    saturneptune
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    A group of learned men decided which books would be in the Old Testement and New Testement. Many books were written that did not make the cut, referred to as extra Biblical writings. James came really close to being left out. The men involved or the books chosen do not matter for this thread.

    The question is, and it is hard to put into words, how close was the guidance of the Holy Spirit was upon these men? Did they make any mistakes? (Leave inspired books out or include uninspired books) Can we trust that the books that are included are the exact ones we should have to the degree that we believe the original writings were infallable and Inspired, and the present versions are inerrent?

    Lousy wording but hope everyone gets the idea.
     
  2. Oldtimer

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    Personally, I believe it's a matter of faith. Faith that God has kept His promise to preserve His word for all generations. Scriptures tell us over and over again, how He's used evil men to accomplish His will.

    Like you, it's difficult to put this into words which won't lead to misunderstanding of what I'm trying to say. Whether it was the Holy Spirit residing in the hearts of men who made these decisions or some other method He chose to use, God kept His promise.

    And, He will continue to do so, despite satan's attempts to despoil. One of the reasons why I'm comfortable saying this is my father. He couldn't read or write his name due to unfortunate circumstances in his childhood. He never read a word from any Bible. I doubt that he ever heard of the term "canon" as it's being used here. From this standpoint, he was a simple and humble man. One who asked - Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

    I have no doubt that we'll meet again in paradise. God keeps his promises whether it's preserving His word or where we'll spend eternity.

    It's a matter of faith. Faith that the Holy Spirit will guide each and everyone who receives Him along the narrow path. Whether it's reading His word or relying on His WORD.
     
  3. Thomas Helwys

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    Excellent! Thank you so much for this! The entire post was good.
     
  4. makahiya117

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    KJV Psalms 12:6-7
    6 The words of the LORD are pure words:
    as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
    7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them
    from this generation for ever.

    The Lord preserved his words, not the church and not the scholars.
     
  5. Yeshua1

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    Taking this from memorary , from general Introduction by bible, geisler and nix...


    Tje early church used strict tests for canoncity, such as Apsotolic written or attested to by Apsotle, such as peter for mark, paul for luke, did it teach in line with recognized Apsotolic books, did it have the mrk of being inspired by the Spriit etc?

    MANY Gospel written and floated around, but church early on saw ONLY the 4 as canon,as they mey all the tests, and most of the NT was already received and circulated way before any Council to decide the issue!

    beleive all but a handful of NT books were unofficial alreasy recognized and been in use among the churches, and the remainders were like james, who some saw as pitting paul against James, hebrews, duet o author being unknown, and 2 peter, dueto some thought had different writing style, borrowing from jude etc!

    So the NT canon was essential 'fixed" among the Apsotolic era itself, just a handful to be agreed upon to have full canon at the council!

    of coure, the Jews had formally agreed upon their OT canon already by time of Christ...
     
  6. jonathan.borland

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    I'll probably take some heat for this, but I think the above is pretty much bull and demonstrates the hobbled American evangelical semi-dependence on German historical-critical methodology, swallowing the German historical-critical presuppositions hook, line, sinker, while at the same time denying 100% the consequences of doing so. The problem is that "verified apostolicity" as a prerequisite for inspiration is a slippery slope that leads to liberal theology, which I define as treating the Bible as any other historical document that merely contains godly, spiritual insights and maybe even "God's Word," but only if you can distinguish these, with the use of critical methods to be sure, from all the fallible human elements.

    Beginning with Johann David Michaelis, we have the idea that "most" of the NT books had apostles for authors and therefore were inspired. But Mark and Luke/Acts, though sanctioned by Peter and Paul, were not to be seen as inspired and written with supernatural help. If Hebrews was not by Paul then it would only be an excellent letter and not inspired and inerrant. So the division between inspired and uninspired books within the Bible already begins with Michaelis. Johann Salomo Semler develops the idea further with the division between the "Word of God" and the Bible. For him, many things in the Bible are not the Word of God, the Jewish OT and Christian NT canons were put together completely arbitrarily, and therefore not all the books within them could have been inspired.

    You can keep on the above line of NT development thinking with Johann Philipp Gabler, Ferdinand Christian Baur, Heinrich Julius Holtzmann, Gustav Krüger, William Wrede, Adolf Jülicher, Werner Georg Kümmel, Philipp Vielhauer, etc., but what's the use? And what about the OT? We know nothing for sure of the final authors. Even the Pentateuch had someone after Moses with his hands all over it, cf. e.g. Deut 34 and esp. 34:10, which demands someone long after Moses commenting in retrospect. And what of the other books? We know nothing for sure of their authors, not to mention all the times of apostasy and reckless abuse or disuse of the Scriptures by the "official" Jewish religious leaders, from whom much of our current documentary evidence derives.

    All of this leads back to the principle of faith, already mentioned in this thread, that God inspired men, usually those despised and rejected by "organized" Jewish and Christian religion, to write down his very words and to group them and then deliver them as a deposit to God's people. Leaders of organized religion bickered and fought (and still do) over what should and should not have been included, but try and fight as they may, they couldn't undo one bit what God through the Holy Spirit did and settled for his people for all time.

    Sincerely,

    Jonathan C. Borland
     
  7. Winman

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    Trust me, if it's from Yeshua1, it is complete bull.
     
  8. Winman

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    Exactly. It's all about FAITH. Some folks just refuse to believe and must have scholarly proof. They will never get that, because God wants us to trust him by faith.

    You have said it perfectly, God promised to preserve his word, and God has kept his promise.
     
  9. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    Excellent!!

    Winman...excellent post from both you and Oldtimer and I'll add a hearty AMEN to that. I'm also gonna give a shout out to Bro.Borland who said the following in the last paragraph of his post above......

    "All of this leads back to the principle of faith, already mentioned in this thread, that God inspired men, usually those despised and rejected by "organized" Jewish and Christian religion, to write down his very words and to group them and then deliver them as a deposit to God's people. Leaders of organized religion bickered and fought (and still do) over what should and should not have been included, but try and fight as they may, they couldn't undo one bit what God through the Holy Spirit did and settled for his people for all time."

    yes,yes, and yes!!!

    Bro.Greg:thumbsup:
     
  10. 12strings

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    nice... :-(
     
  11. Mexdeaf

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    Actually, God preserved His Word through the church and scholars. There is no "magic" to preservation as KJVO's would like to believe.
     
  12. Crabtownboy

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    Which set or sets of scripture are you speaking of in the OP?



    We have what we have. We use what we use ... and there are questions for which I do not believe we have good answers.

    Are there lost books that should be included in the canon?

    What about books cited by writers in the Bible that are not in the canon ... such as: Book of the Wars of the Lord, Book of Jasher, Book of the Covenant, Book of Nathan, Book of Gad, Book of Samuel, Prophecy of Ahijah, Visions of Iddo, Acts of Uzziah, Acts of Solomon, Three Thousand Proverbs of Solomon, A Thousand and Five Songs of Solomon, Chronicles of the Kings of Judah, Chronicles of the Kings of Israel, Book of Jehu, Book of Enoch.
     
    #12 Crabtownboy, Mar 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2013
  13. kyredneck

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    In our [Protestant] Bible each book contains 'Thus saith Jehovah' in some form or fashion, and I think that was a guiding factor with those that compiled it; with the exception of the book of Esther. ???
     
    #13 kyredneck, Mar 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2013

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