Holy Spirit

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by buckster75, Jan 26, 2006.

  1. buckster75

    buckster75
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    This is quoted from another section:

    "You do not have the Holy Spirit as the apostles of the first century did"

    Wanted some feed back. This Book I have been reading says there is only one Spirit.
    What do you think?
     
  2. Marcia

    Marcia
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    All believers have the HS has the apostles did. The difference might be that they received the indwelling of the HS at Pentecost, at the same time.

    However, anyone who believes in Christ received the HS.
     
  3. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea
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    Countless thousands of volumes have been written on this subject. There are many spirits, but only one Holy Spirit. The accounts in the New Testament of the reception of the Holy Spirit and of being filled with the Holy Spirit are so varied that it is impossible glean from them any definitive doctrine regarding this matter. Most contemporary doctrines regarding this subject are largely based upon the experience of individuals and attempts to explain these experiences on the basis of Scripture, but since both contemporary experiences and the New Testament experience vary widely, so do the contemporary doctrines. Attempts to reconcile Old Testament accounts of the Holy Spirit with New Testament Accounts greatly add to the difficulty.

    My suggestion is to be prayerfully obedient to God and the teachings of the New Testament to the best of your ability and allow the Holy Spirit to minister in and through your life as He may choose.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. blackbird

    blackbird
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    Ditto Marcia here!!

    Bro. David
     
  5. Helen

    Helen
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    Looking at the Bible, we see this:

    You, however, are controlled by by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
    Romans 8:9
     
  6. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea
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    Ditto Marcia here!!

    Bro. David
    </font>[/QUOTE]This is today, a very common belief among Baptist lay persons, but it radically contradicts explicit statements in Scriptures. Here are two examples:

    Acts 8:14. Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John,
    15. who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
    16. For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
    17. Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.

    Acts 19:1. It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples.
    2. He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
    3. And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
    4. Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
    5. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
    6. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.


    Acts 19:1. It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples.
    2. He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said/ to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
    3. And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
    4. Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
    5. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
    6. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began/ speaking with tongues and prophesying.

    And, since this belief radically contradicts explicit statements in Scriptures, we would expect to find throughout the history of the church examples where other believers did not receive the Holy Spirit upon belief, but subsequent to belief, and sometimes not for a substantial period of time—or not at all. And that is exactly what we do find! For example, studies of the testimonies of atheists who earlier in their lives were believers and very active in the Christian faith suggest very strongly that a large portion of these believers had not received the Holy Spirit at any time in their life.

    As I wrote in my earlier post in this thread, the accounts in the New Testament of the reception of the Holy Spirit and of being filled with the Holy Spirit are so varied that it is impossible glean from them any definitive doctrine regarding this matter. Theologians in the Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Lutheran, Presbyterian, and Methodists churches have spent countless hours studying and discussing this subject, and it could scarcely be more complex. To the naïve layman, the Scriptures dealing with the reception of the Holy Spirit may pigeonhole very easily and neatly into their personal theological construct, but if they would take the time to study the views of the scholars, they would learn for themselves how very naïve they were. If the interpretation of all the relevant scriptural passages seems very obvious to you, consider that the interpretation of all the relevant scriptural passages also seems very obvious to others whose interpretation is VERY different from yours, and they can’t even begin to imagine how you could possibly be so far off in your understanding.

    In the New Testament, the doctrines of belief, water baptism, laying on of hands, reception of the Holy Spirit, and being baptized into/with/by the Holy Spirit are intertwined and there is no set pattern or sequence. And, of course, to study these matters outside of the context of the Old Testament and its teachings on this matter is absolute folly. Men have no business telling God how it is; God does what He wants to do, and when it comes to the gift of the Holy Spirit and the giving of that gift, we see that God is sovereign and does not fit well in a cute little box with a pretty little bow on it.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
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    Craigbythesea,

    It is interesting that you bypassed the account in Acts 10 in which the people only heard the Word and the Holy Ghost fell upon them. Then it was commanded that they be baptized. Let me post those verses...

    Notice there the Holy Spirit was received at the exact time they believed the Word. No laying on of hands was necessary.
     
  8. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea
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    Notice there the Holy Spirit was received at the exact time they believed the Word. No laying on of hands was necessary. </font>[/QUOTE]Please forgive me if I gave you the impression that I was claiming that I had posted every Scripture in the Bible regarding the giving and the reception of the Holy Spirit. My intent was simply to show that the supposition of some laypersons that ALL believers receive the Holy Spirit upon their belief is not a Biblical doctrine, and that history confirms that not all believers receive the Holy Spirit upon their belief. Yes, it is the normative experience, and we find a description of this normative experience in Acts 10, but as I posted, we also find exceptions to this normative experience in the book of Acts.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. buckster75

    buckster75
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    The actual OP is speaking of the one Spirit not how or if a person has it. If they do have the HS it is the same thru all history since the beginning.
     
  10. Ron Arndt

    Ron Arndt
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    Ephesians 1:13 clearly says that when we trusted in the gospel of Christ for our salvation we were THEN sealed with the Holy Spirit.The Holy Spirit is a GIFT to us, when we believe.
     
  11. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
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    Amen, Ron!

    From the moment you believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise.

    The other verses have some validity though, but I think there is something else there.

    In Acts 19 account, the Bible only states that these were disciples, and that they were baptized into John's gospel. John preached a message of repentance and that the true light was coming after him. So, these were not disciples of Christ. They were still seeking the one coming after John.

    In Acts 8, we see people hearing and receiving the Word, but not receiving the Holy Spirit. Is it possible that they received the Word, but did not fully believe? If that is the case, then the Holy Spirit would not come.
     
  12. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea
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    No, it does NOT! Eph. 1:3-14 are, in the Greek New Testament, one long sentence which is a lengthy doxology, a type of eulogy. And a fundamental principle of Biblical interpretation is that eulogies cannot be interpreted as doctrinal passages because they present only one side of the truth just as eulogies at funeral do. And in this eulogy Paul is speaking of one specific group of people with whom he was intimately acquainted. Therefore, to apply these words to every believer, without exception, is unfounded conjecture.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea
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    “Fully believe”—this is a major part of the complexity of this matter. When Baptists see a fellow believer turn completely away from Christ, they often say that that believer was not a “true” believer even though they did believe and live an active Christian life, and some of them for many years. And, of course, there is no doubt that the people in Acts 8 and 19 were believers—but did they believe enough to receive the Holy Spirit?

    8:14. Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John,
    15. who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
    16. For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
    17. Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.
    18. Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money,
    19. saying, "Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit."

    This passage does not answer that question, but it does tell us some very interesting things. For example,

    • These believers did NOT receive the Holy Spirit until hands were laid upon them by apostles.

    • When they did receive the Holy Spirit, something very obvious happened to them that was apparent to everyone who witnessed the event.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
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    The Holy Spirit is the earnest (guarantee) of our inheritance.

    Paul wrote the Corinthian church that the body was the temple of the Holy Spirit. All believers, upon accepting the Lord as Savior, have that Holy Spirit upon belief as Paul stated in Ephesians 1:13.

    We also see in Paul's writings...

    Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    What is the Spirit of Christ? To find out, one has to look in John 14.

    John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

    John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

    1 Corinthians 6:19,20 tells us we are the temple of the Holy Spirit and we are not our own, for we have been bought with a price (Christ's shed blood for the remission of sins). Upon belief, we became His possession, His Spirit sealed us to show that we are now joint-heirs with Christ.
     

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