Honest questioning....

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Baptistgal, Apr 21, 2004.

  1. Baptistgal

    Baptistgal
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    I am pretty new here to this forum. After having read through some different points I have noticed some real problems among many of you with Hyles. Why is this? Every time I have ever heard him preach his doctrinal theology has lined up with the Bible. I have seen a thread wondering why there are not that many people saved through Baptist churches...and in that thread Hyles is referred to as if he were a wacko...yet his church sees thousands saved each year. These conversions are just as genuine as any you or I see throughout the year. How can any of us say they aren't? They see such a vast amount saved because their laypeople get out there on the streets and witness to those they meet, every week. They do not rely merely on the preaching on Sundays and Wednesdays for all their salvation numbers.

    I am not a rabid Hyles "follower", as I have met some who are! They are not always people I want to fellowship with, however this is not what Jack Hyles wanted. I know, because I have heard him speak to that issue, and I know many people who grew up in his church.

    Why do I see their soulwinning methods impugned so often? Are there misconceptions out there that ought to be cleared up?

    For example, on this very board I saw a supposed quote of his, taken out of context, with no explanation as to the possible meaning, yet it was accepted at face value by everyone else reading the thread. This disappointed me quite a bit, as I think we ought to try to give other Christians the benefit of the doubt, especially when hearing something second- or third-hand.

    Perhaps this isn't the right topic for this thread, and I'm sorry. If not,where may I post this? I have no problem recommeding Hyles-Anderson college to anyone wanting to learn how to preach God's Word. It certainly won't be right for everyone, I don't think it offers very much for ladies. But for its stated purpose it is an excellent college.
     
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    This is the right thread Baptistgal (and welcome to the board).

    There will be plenty of posters to describe why Dr Hyles is viewed so poorly here. Alternately you can do a search including "all posts" as your option to see what has been discussed in the past.

    Stay tuned to this channel [​IMG] .
     
  3. Daniel David

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    Dr. Hyles is like the snake that whispered a perversion to Eve. Well, except that snake was obviously a tool of satan.
     
  4. hactonv

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    Hey Baptistgal,

    I think that the reason that so many people have to act like they Hate Dr. Jack Hyles, is because deep down they want to be like him, yet don't wantto have to spend the time or money or even think of the sacrifice they would have to make to become a great man of God.
    I was a student at Hyles-Anderson College the year Bro. Hyles went to be wiht Jesus. I was in Principles of Leadership with Dr. Evans, and we were all in prayer for him and at the end of that class, Dr. Evans started to pray when all the students felt a breeze throught the chapel. Then we finished our class and went to Chapel. Where it was annouced that Dr. Hyles had gone to Heaven. It was amazing the feeling in the chapel room! Almost like Bro. Hyles saying "I'm okay!"
    Though he was and still is a great man of God...I really think that other christians let their feeling get in the way. Though I have yet to graduate from HAC (due to my family getting extreemly ill) I do plan on going back and graduating from thier college, because I truely believe that it is a great Bible college! Thanks for sticking up for my preacher!
     
  5. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    [​IMG] [​IMG] A breeze through the chapel when Hyles died??

    The answer is that in his later years, Hyles greatly departed from biblical orthodoxy. There was always an element of hero worship and loose living around him. But his departure from orthodox theology in later years was the icing on the cake. Hyles is not well respected by most because of what he did and what he preached. It has nothing to do with wanting to be like him. It has do with our love for truth and for accurate biblical preaching and living.
     
  6. hactonv

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    I'm glad God gave us our own minds! So we can have our own oppions!

    While I was a full-time student, working full-time... in nine-months I saw...

    452 saved!!!
    How about you???
     
  7. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    If you are a disciple of Jack Hyles, we have a different definition of saved. Which is one of the key problems with Jack Hyles. He has taken biblical doctrine and changed it.
     
  8. hactonv

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    My definition of seeing someone saved is leading them to Christ by the Romans road, making sure they understand it, and seeing them mean what they say in thier prayer! The only way the Bible tells us that we are saved.
    I'm not a disciple of Dr. Hyles...but a christian who looks at things from all different perspectives!
    I'm not trying to make an enemy or make you mad...but to see that as a christian you nor I have any right to look down on someone else who is TRYING. That is what is wrong with America...and other countries. Everyone thinks they know what is right.
    I will admit, there was a lot that I agree with and alot that I disagree with. But through Hyles-Anderson College, I was able to see that there are different oppions out there, and I had to search for what I believe. Do I live in Dresses? No! I know the verse they use for that but I believe it is taken wrong. But I do believe that there is only one way to Heaven and the JW's don't know that.
    I just hope that you all see that God doesn't want his children fighting or hindering eithers ministries.
    See....
    I grew up under a pastor who I believe was to strict. I was a bus kid...(and that is why Bus routes are dear to my heart) This man, decided that HE, not GOD, but He as a man was going to play God in my life. He told me it was God's will to tell my parents that I must live with him and his wife inorder to fill God's will. Then after that didn't work He was determined on sending me to a private Bible college in England...THIS IS GOD'S Will!!! No it wasn't. So when I went to HAC...I was finally able to make my own decissons. Yes, I did make good and bad choices, and I loved alot of what I learned. Though they didn't prepare me to stand on my own two feet...I decided that I had to learn that on my own.
    Now as a 23 yr old, with 5 yrs of (different) colleges under me I am able to stand. Not only have I started a church related class at my Community College. I have prayer hour at the hospitals on Sunday. (That is the hospital I work for.)
    So, please just think about. Don't take what everybody else says. Think for yourself. I'm not asking you to worship anybody or even like anyone. I'm asking that you be happy that they are working on the same team...EVEN IF IT ISN'T THE WAY YOU THINK IT SHOULD BE DONE!
    Please,
    Praying for all
     
  9. Pastor Larry

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    It isn't about the way I think it should be done. What I think is irrelevant. But when a man contradicts the word of God, both by his doctrine and lifestyle, there is a serious problem ... The gospel, getting saved, is not about praying a prayer. It is about the commitment of the heart. If those people all made genuine commitments, then the church should be 400+ people larger now. Is it?
     
  10. Dr. Bob

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    Jack Hyles probably did more damage to historic fundamental baptists than anyone in this generation. Sadly, his sycophants continue to teach the same abberent theology and methods that moved Dr. Hyles from orthodoxy to heresy.

    Maybe THAT is why there is so much negative about him and his "school".
     
  11. hactonv

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    Pastor Larry,
    Commitment dosen't have to be in Church attendence. The thief on th ecross never attended church and is in Heaven. If not then Jesus lied before he died. I understand what you all say, and like I said before I don't want to make anybody upset, and I don't get to see it from your perspective, and I don't know what type of Baptist you are, but living under the pastorship of Dr. Hyles, his last 2 yrs. of life, I didn't see where he was out of content from the Bible on Big issues! (All churches are out of content to some degree) That is why God gave us our own minds so we would be able to think and believe what WE want to as a person.
    And if you guys hate Dr. Hyles as much as you say you do...What do you think of Jeff Owens?!?? Sorry I shouldn't of typed hate(though that is what I hear from your fourm) because Hate is a sin.
    Thanks for listening!
     
  12. dianetavegia

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    Maybe their sinful nature would like the chance to fool around with another man's wife, etc. but I don't think too many here would call Hyles a 'great man of God'.

    Personally..... I think at his funeral some might think they heard him say ...'Hey... why's it so HOT here?' ;)
     
  13. hactonv

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    Maybe their sinful nature would like the chance to fool around with another man's wife, etc. but I don't think too many here would call Hyles a 'great man of God'


    Do you have proof of that? Were you the wife??? Or maybe you should go look at the lawyers files to see that that was all made up.

    I know that there are lots of those saying out there, but I wasn't stupid. I didn't just say..." oh the crowd believes it, I guess it must be so!" I did research on alot of it. I wasn't going to go to a college with a pastor that had these types of cases against him. That would be the dumpist thing to do. And as I have said before... I believe some of the things preached by any preacher, but I haveto make the choice.
    Now before anybody goes pointing thier finger at anyone... find the evidence, don't just believe what you hear. That should be learned as a child. IT ISN'T ALL TRUE. Now I'm not saying that Dr. Hyles was perfect. But I know that, that case was made up and put out to the public, and if I go to the storage unit and get my paper work out...I'd be able to tell you why, who,when, where it all was started and where it all ended. And the funny part is that the site I found alot of the info on were not for Hyles. So it wasn't like I was talking to friends of his telling me that it was a lie. It was people who didn't even know the man.
     
  14. dianetavegia

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    Sin in the Camp of Fundamentalists
    The following action was taken by the Indianapolis Baptist Temple (Greg Dixon, pastor):

    We are not trying to interfere with another local church. We are doing only what we can do biblically to disassociate with apostasy. We asked a council of pastors (Proverbs 11:14) to gather in our church auditorium January 27, 1992, to hear and view evidence along with several members of our church [concerning Dr. Jack Hyles]. We gave Dr. Hyles an opportunity to come and defend the charges made against him, [but] we never heard from him. After prayerful deliberation, this council unanimously recommended to our church that the following statement be considered:

    (a) The Indianapolis Baptist Temple as of Feb. 12, 1992, withdraws fellowship with the First Baptist Church of Hammond, IN, and Hyles-Anderson College, as long as Dr. Jack Hyles is pastor of the church, Chancellor (or other official position) with the college.

    (b) Dr. Hyles has enlarged the issue by making himself a litmus test for Fundamentalists and also because of the international scope of his ministry ... other churches [25] have taken similar action.

    (c) We take the admonition of I Tim 5:1,19 very seriously, but Dr. Hyles was confronted twice in Deacon's Meetings at First Baptist Church with no success, and on several occasions good men of God in the spirit of Matthew 18:15-19 have tried to meet with him privately and publicly to no avail; but rather their acts of love were met with rebuff.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Statement by the Indianapolis Baptist Temple on Breaking Fellowship With First Baptist Church, Hammond, Indiana; Hyles-Anderson College -- (Unanimous Action of the Church on February 12, 1992 -- this is a partial statement only; the entire statement is reprinted in the 7/20/92, Christian News, p. 14.):

    1) Dr. Hyles destroyed a man's [Victor Nischik's] family, alienated the affection of his wife from him and his children. Even though he [Hyles] knew of this estranged relationship, he continued to employ her and have close, private, and intimate contact with her in their offices behind closed and locked doors for long periods of time. He also took her on long automobile rides and trips for hours, including resort hotels with neither of their spouses present. He refused to stop seeing the man's wife under these circumstances even after being confronted many times by her husband. Dr. Hyles' conduct is a clear violation of several Scriptures ... (Rom. 14:16; I Cor. 8:13; I Thes. 5:22).

    2) Dr. Hyles lied to the preachers of America when he wrote in letters dated June 7, 1990, and August 3, 1990, that he had no evidence whatsoever that his son [David] was having moral problems before he left First Baptist Church. The fact is he had been told by many witnesses again and again that his son was a fornicator and later an adulterer (I Sam. 2:12-36; 4:1-22; Deut. 19:15- 19). He further refused to exercise church discipline on his son when he [the son] and his second wife returned to the First Baptist Church of Hammond although it had been known that David was continuing to have affairs with women. It was also known that his wife posed for a pornographic magazine in a most lewd manner. In this magazine she was featured in an advertisement for group sex.

    3) Dr. Hyles lied to the preachers in his letter of August 3, 1989, saying in point number 11: "I did not recommend my son David to the Miller Road Baptist Church of Garland, Texas. They contacted him apart from my knowledge and never sought my recommendation." Jack Hyles actually recommended David to the pulpit of Miller Road in several personal phone calls with deacons. [Hyles once called David Hyles "the most brilliant, spiritual man I have ever met."] By recommending David, he deliberately turned a sex maniac loose on the unsuspecting congregation. This resulted in the near destruction of the church when David became involved with at least nineteen different women in the church. Dr. Hyles then added insult to injury when he instructed David not to confess his sin before the church when he was willing to do so.

    4) Dr. Hyles deceived preachers when he implied that there was no door between his and Mrs. Nischik's offices. ... In reality, there had been a door between their offices from the time he became pastor until it was shut after the Sumner article was published [5/1/89, Biblical Evangelist].

    5) Dr. Hyles lied several times about his involvement with this woman [Jenny Nischik] in dispositions taken in early 1986. Under oath he admitted that he gave her from Church and personal funds more than $100,000 over a 20-year period. This was in addition to her salary.

    6) Dr. Hyles has taught false doctrine. He has proclaimed the heresy of the eternal humanity of Christ in sermons preached from 1982 to 1988. In 1982, Dr. Hyles stated, "Jesus did not become human in Bethlehem; He became flesh in Bethlehem." In sermons delivered from 1986 to 1988, Hyles preached, "He didn't learn how to become a man when He came to Bethlehem. He already was one." "Jesus says, 'Father, you have never been human. I have always been human.'" (1986) "Jesus is man. He always was man." (1987) "Jesus was always man or human ...; Jesus did not become man in Bethlehem; He became flesh." (1988) To our knowledge, these statements never have been publicly retracted.

    7) Dr. Hyles is dividing Fundamentalism by making himself the litmus test of Fundamentalism. For example, if one does not attend [Hyles' annual] Pastors' School, or if one does not support him 100%, he is not to be considered a Fundamentalist. Recently, he has declared in sermons that if a person does not support him, that person is not in "the Faith" (Prov. 6:16,19).

    8) Dr. Hyles has had numerous opportunities to clear his name of all charges. He has repeatedly refused to meet with good men to discuss these issues; or to meet face to face those who have accused him.

    9) Dr. Hyles appears to be trying to hide his outlandish sin and heresy behind the "success syndrome," namely, big crowds, big enrollment, big conferences, and big offerings.

    In conclusion, Dr. Hyles' greatest sin, in our opinion, is the sin of pride. In his June 7, 1990, letter to the pastors he wrote, "I said to my people recently that God never asks us to understand Him. It is impossible for us to understand God, so He does not require us to do so. We have never been God, so we cannot understand God. Because of this, all God asks of us is our faith, our trust, our confidence. You cannot understand me. No one in the history of America has ever stood in my shoes, so I cannot ask you to understand. I can ask you what God asks; I would like to have your trust, your faith, your confidence." [Hyles claims he is being persecuted because of his defense of the King James Version of the Bible and his conservative theology. He told his congregation that he is the purest man they had ever seen.]

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    There's dozens of reports from t.v. channels, other churches, etc. I'd suggest you do as requested, search the site and read what has been posted before.

    Diane
     
  15. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    A person who claims to be a believer but is not regularly involved in the local church has no basis for his faith and no basis for assurance. THe thief on teh cross, had he lived, would have certainly be involved in the local church. He simply died before he had that chance.

    Independent fundamental, Baptist.

    Personal morality; soteriology; bibliology to start with. In those three areas alone are gross and substantial violations of biblical teaching.

    I don't have Hyles. I don't even know him. I think what he did to Christianity and fundamentalism was a travesty.

    Don't have any idea who that is.
     
  16. hactonv

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    Pastor Larry
    Thanks for answering my ?'s. Jeff Owens is one who used to be at HAC but now is a pastor in West Virginia. I thought you'd know him too. He is the pastor that I have a hard time with.
    Anyway, I'm done debating on this issue! I hope you all might even be able to look at it just a bit different than how you were taught... if not... well, that is okay also, because God gave you that!
     
  17. arnold

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    My husband and I visited Jeff Owens' church in WV last month. It was a lot different than all the other Hyles churched we've been to. You actually felt like they cared about you personally, and not like you're just another number for the record books. We were pleasantly surprised.
     
  18. Askjo

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    Hello Baptistgal,

    I saw Jack Hyles before. I went to his church many times. The reason that I do not recommend for you to go there is because of wrong soul-winning method, sinful profanity, hyper-legalism, etc.

    I 100% agree with Diane concerning Sin in the Camp of Fundamentalists.

    A lady had a newspaper from her church. A newspaper told what Jack Hyles said. Jack Hyles said, "If I fall, the fundamentalism will fall."
     
  19. Askjo

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    Hyles' numbers!!!! Voyles, a former worker in Hyles' church, who is now a lawyer (as well as anti-Hyles), said Hyles was obsessed with increasing the numbers, and not concerned about how they accomplished this.

    150 Saved!!! 300 Saved!!! Blah!!! Blah!! 800 Saved!!!! Blah!!! Blah!!! 3000 Saved!!! Is that true?

    During a revival I attended at Hyles' church, I watched as a preacher witnessed to a man about Jesus. After the preacher asked if he was saved (he nodded his head yes), he rode back home with my best friend and I. We chatted with him about getting saved at Hyles' church. We learned that this man was STILL unsaved because we realized that he did NOT understand how to be saved.
     
  20. Young Fundamentalist

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    Have you ever heard Bro. Hyles? Have you ever listened to his sermons? He is one of THE greatest preachers in the world. Out of all the sermons he's reached, you people wil find one line and take it out of context... And the same thing for bro. Schaap. Have you ever met these great men of God? Have you ever spoken to them. I highly doubt it. Cause if you had, you would know how false these sayings are. He had no other desire than to see people saved. You should listen to his message titled, "Fresh Oil". It is one of the best for a Christian. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if half of the men who bash Bro. Hyles aren't a little jealous. You can say what you want but Hyles was one of the Greatest.
     

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