Hot Cross Buns

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Sep 29, 2004.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    In the ancient cultic religions of the Middle East, worship of the mother/child gods was commonplace. Much of that has been syncretized into Catholicism.

    Making cakes to worship her was a common practice of veneration of female deity.

    Someone asked if the "hot cross buns" of today (does anyone still make them?) were a modern tie to mariolatry - worship/veneration of Mary and a throw-back to this ancient custom.

    Thoughts? Further information or ideas?
     
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    My impression was that they are indeed related to the four phases of the moon, but that the cross that divided the buns into four sections was simply Christianised to picture the cross, hence the tradition of eating them on Good Friday.

    I had not heard of the marian implications.

    They are so popular here that it is hard to buy them on Good Friday.
     
  3. Craigbythesea

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    Roman Catholic theologians make a sharp distinction between the veneration of Mary and the worship of God. They also make a sharp distinction between the veneration of Mary and the saints. When speaking of the veneration of Mary they use the word “dulia”. When speaking of the veneration of the saints they use the word “hyperdulia”. When speaking of the worship of God they use the word “latria.” If a Roman Catholic theologian was to use the word “latria” in reference to Mary, he would be burned at the steak!
     
  4. Marcia

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    Or maybe he would be eating burned steak? [​IMG] Couldn't resist.

    Where are these distinctions towards Mary and the saints found in the Bible?
     
  5. Dr. Bob

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    It is semantics of Catholicism. I've discussed it on Other Religions with some. They do not "worship" Mary; they "venerate". To a Baptist, there is NO REAL DISTINCTION between them in the big picture.

    Bowing and praying and "making cakes to the Queen of Heaven" are all outward signs of worship.

    Since RC cannot post here, I am looking for this thread to stay on topic on FACTS abou the hot cross buns. Thanks.
     
  6. Marcia

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    I got interested in this because of the goddess connection. Here is what one site says:

     
  7. Marcia

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    Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_cross_bun
    says
    Other accounts say similar things -- pagan origins but changed by the Church to signify a Christian belief. This is very similar to the history of the yule log, Christmas wreaths, and Easter eggs, all of which have pagan origins. A lot of stuff has pagan origins because paganism was part of the common culture before Christ and even after, and there were syncretistic results .

    So far, I saw no connection to Mary.
     
  8. Craigbythesea

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    The Tradition of Hot Cross Buns

    Hot Cross Buns have a mixed history. Some say they were part of pagan spring festivals and later given the cross by monks wanting to give Christian meaning to the the tradition. Other accounts speak of an English widow whose son went off to sea and she vowed to bake him a bun every Good Friday. When he didn't return she continued to bake a hot cross bun for him each year and hung it in the bakery window in good faith that he would some day return to her. The English people kept the tradition for her even after she passed away.

    Holiday traditions often have pagan, as well as Christian roots and many times the symbolism has been changed over time to adapt to those using it in their celebrations. I have found that what really matters is what value the tradition has in our own families, and our own communities.

    Brenda Hyde
     
  9. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Not finding evidence of making Hot Cross Buns doing anything like this.
     
  10. AVL1984

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    I know the bakery that my wife and I worked for in Granite Falls, MN made hot cross buns for the local Catholic church several times a year.
     
  11. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Not doubting their tie to Catholicism. I am questioning their tie-in to Marianism and their application to the verse above.
     
  12. Dr. Bob

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    Think the RC phrase "Queen of Heaven" is part of the surface tie-in. Mary is worshiped (in spite of RC protestations) and called Queen of Heaven. So is Tamuz/child goddess from the Jeremiah text.

    The common denominator is the pagan cakes/buns to Queen of Heaven (Tamuz) and modern hot crossed buns to Queen of Heaven (Mary). But I do not think there is a CONSCIOUS tie-in.

    Appreciate the good info/links on pagan origin.
     
  13. AVL1984

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    Does the baker constantly saying "Jesus, Joseph and Mary" while he crosses himself count?? ;) Sorry, couldn't resist!
     
  14. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Hot cross buns are not made to Mary. There is nothing Marian about them even in this Marian country.

    They supposedly symbolise the cross.
     
  15. superdave

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    I don't eat them, so I'm not too worried

    As long as the variety dozen from Tim Hortons is OK

    That being said, most if not all of our modern and traditional celebrations of holidays derive themselves from ancient pagan culture and practice. Probably many that we can't even track down at this point
     

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