House of God/ Gate of Heaven

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Iconoclast, Nov 24, 2014.

  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    In another thread I was able to interact with Biblicist on several areas...one of which was the House of God.
    Biblicist having done some study on this pointed out that 84 times this term spoke of a God ordained meeting place in a locality and under Divine instruction.
    It brought this passage to mind which is one that did not totally fit the parameters that Biblicist quite correctly pointed out.

    What do you make of this passage which is very intense in Gen 28;

    10 And Jacob went out from Beersheba, and went toward Haran.

    11 And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep.

    12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.13 And, behold, the Lord stood above it, and said, I am the Lord God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;

    14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

    15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

    16 And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the Lord is in this place; and I knew it not.

    17 And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place! this is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.


    This passage is great and then we have John saying this in JN 1;

    49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

    50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.

    51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

    Do you see a correlation?

    Do you believe these passages override that which in local in nature ?

    Do you believe that the local and eschatological ONE Eternal BODY...have a link with both these passages as well as the fine passage Biblicist pointed to in 1 tim 3???


    Do you have an idea about about the language used...heaven opened...Jacobs ladder...angels ascending and descending...the gate of heaven....the House of God?
    Do you have additional scripture that can come to bear on this topic?:thumbs:
     
    #1 Iconoclast, Nov 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2014
  2. Zenas

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    The Genesis 28 passage and the John 1 passage are clearly connected. The lead in is in John 1:47, where Jesus says to Nathaniel, "Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile." This is of course a reference to Jacob (Israel), who was full of guile and drawing a contrast with Nathaniel.
     
  3. Iconoclast

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    Hello Zenas,

    What about the Gen 28 account made that place....The House of God ?

    What significance was the ladder?

    Have you heard teaching on this?

    Have you read a good link or commentary on this?

    What link do you see with the "house of God " mentioned in1 tim3?:wavey:
     
  4. Iconoclast

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    From got questions-

    It is in this passage that God reveals Himself to Jacob and reaffirms the covenant He made with Abraham, promising Jacob (who will later be named Israel) that his offspring will be many and that the Promised Land will one day belong to his descendants. In this vision Jacob sees something similar to a ladder or a stairway (Hebrew word: sullam) which signifies a connection between God and man. In this instance, it was God who provided the means necessary to link Himself to man as opposed to the men of Babel in Genesis 11 who tried to reach heaven by their own actions, aside from the help of God.

    These two passages of Scripture reflect differing schools of thought over the issue of salvation: One group tries to reach heaven based on their own actions aside from God's help, but the other group has access to heaven based on the provisions of God and only the provisions of God.

    As Christians we see this dream of Jacob's as highly symbolic, representing the Mediator, Jesus Christ, who came to earth and became that ladder or stairway for us to reconnect the relationship with God that was severed because of sin. Romans 5:1-2 says, "Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand."

    According to the Bible, Jesus was our ideal "Jacob's Ladder" who came to earth, from the line of Jacob, through the provisions of God, and redeemed us so that we may live in heaven for eternity.


    Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Jacobs-ladder.html#ixzz3K39iWSfX
     
  5. Iconoclast

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    Matthew Henry;

    Jacob's conduct hitherto, as recorded, was not that of one who simply feared and trusted in God. But now in trouble, obliged to flee, he looked only to God to make him to dwell in safety, and he could lie down and sleep in the open air with his head upon a stone. Any true believer would be willing to take up with Jacob's pillow, provided he might have Jacob's vision. God's time to visit his people with his comforts, is, when they are most destitute of other comforts, and other comforters. Jacob saw a ladder which reached from earth to heaven, the angels going up and coming down, and God himself at the head of it.

    This represents, 1. The providence of God, by which there is a constant intercourse kept up between heaven and earth. This let Jacob know that he had both a good guide and a good guard.

    2. The mediation of Christ. He is this ladder; the foot on earth in his human nature, the top in heaven in his Divine nature. Christ is the Way; all God's favours come to us, and all our services go to him, by Christ, John 1:51. By this way, sinners draw near to the throne of grace with acceptance. By faith we perceive this way, and in prayer we approach by it. In answer to prayer we receive all needful blessings of providence and grace. We have no way of getting to heaven but by Christ. And when the soul, by faith, can see these things, then every place will become pleasant, and every prospect joyful. He will never leave us, until his last promise is accomplished in our everlasting happiness. God now spake comfortably to Jacob. He spake from the head of the ladder. All the glad tidings we receive from heaven come through Jesus Christ. The Messiah should come from Jacob. Christ is the great blessing of the world. All that are blessed, are blessed in him, and none of any family are shut out from blessedness in him, but those that shut out themselves. Jacob had to fear danger from his brother Esau; but God promises to keep him. He had a long journey before him; to an unknown country; but, Behold, I am with thee, and God promises to bring him back again to this land. He seemed to be forsaken of all his friends; but God gives him this assurance, I will not leave thee. Whom God loves, he never leaves.
     
  6. convicted1

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    Jesus Christ is Jacob's ladder. Christ is the only way from earth to heaven. Jacob's ladder extended from heaven to earth....
     
  7. Zenas

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    I haven't heard teaching on this and I haven't read any commentary on this specific matter.

    The ladder is of course the pathway from earth to Heaven, as has been mentioned. Although Jacob had no way of knowing this, we now know that the ladder represents Jesus. The ladder was resting on the ground where Jacob lay, which ground was promised to Jacob and his descendants in 28:15. It would be the nation of Israel.

    We know that the nation of Israel took on a new meaning under Christianity. "Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham." Galatians 3:7. In 1 Timothy 3, the house of God is the church, the Christian Israel. So yes, there is a clear link .
     
  8. Iconoclast

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    Good post Zenas.

    I think you are right on target.God speaks to those He is in Covenant with. The angels are messengers.....and the full final messenger is The Lord Jesus Christ.
    I see in this God establishing sacred space in Bethel .....the House of God....because He has chosen to identify with His Covenant people in that place. Later in a physical temple or meeting place. Eventually in the Holy City.
    In the new Covenant the people are now living stones of the true temple that is being built that will assemble on the last day in the Heavenly Zion and Jerusalem.
    Until then we assemble in local assemblies as commanded.
     
  9. T Alan

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    Iconoclast, when is the "last day" you reference?
     
  10. Iconoclast

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    Hello T Alan,
    I believe the last day is judgement day when the white throne judgement takes place. While believers have already entered eternal life God's purpose for this earth must be consummated before the ONE TRUE CHURCH assembles.

    Jesus said it this way;

    39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
    40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day
     
  11. T Alan

    T Alan
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    Are you curious why He refers to it as the "last day" when it indeed is not the actual last day. Perhaps the last day of the age. And indeed for some the White Throne may be the last day.
     
  12. Iconoclast

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    This question is a good one and you are on top of it.

    Sometimes the last day, could be a reference to the last days of the jewish theocracy. Scripture indicates that there is a last day for satan and the demonic spirits....remember when Jesus was casting out devils and they said why do you torment us before OUR TIME...
    Paul speaks of it in Acts 17...

    31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead

    there is a verse that satisfies my curiosity on it here in rev22;
    10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

    11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
    12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

    in vs 11 everyones eternal destiny is fixed....that is how I see the last day and the judgement.....

    If we are eternal beings, and those in torment are in conscious eternal torment....that kind of excludes any last day...day,lol
     
    #12 Iconoclast, Nov 25, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2014
  13. T Alan

    T Alan
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    Indeed. BTW, just curious for future reference, what label best defines your hermenutic: Amil, Post Mill, Pre Mill? I am guessing based on a few other comments of yours, Amil.
     
  14. Iconoclast

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    I was first trained as a dispensational premill...for 4-5 years....

    now I am drifting between postmill/ amill.....leaning post mill believe it or not:wavey:... I am waiting for someone to demonstrate otherwise...but it is not happening yet:laugh:

    I think it most healthy to understand the four main positions...as long as we serve God to the fullest of our abilities....

    Initially I sought to learn systematic theology first...that led to a look at God's attributes....have studied Hebrews, Romans and Ephesians more than any other books...the last half of isa.40-66...and deut 28-33.

    I am content with whichever calendar God will employ,or has been using...I mean seriously....only one is correct :wavey:
     
  15. T Alan

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    I respect your response and agree "only one is correct". I am in the camp best labeled "dispy" although I wouldn't agree with each point of most whom define the term. God bless in your search. I too am ever seeking Truth and truth. It is much more than how you read and understand Revelation and one's bent will reflect how one interprets 27 percent of the bible as, I have been told, that is how much Prophecy is contained in the bible.
     

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