How a church can go from "praise and worship" to true preaching of God's Word!

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Spoudazo, Sep 1, 2005.

  1. Spoudazo

    Spoudazo
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    How does it happen? Well, how about if over 50% of the congregation gets saved! Praise the Lord! Just wanted to rejoice in what God has done. Over the past 7-8 years, we've probably had close to 100 people get saved, 80% of which were church members.

    I was one of them! Praise the Lord He showed me what I needed (Jesus) when I was 15.

    He saved my mom when she was 6 (you could always tell),

    Next He saved my sister when she was about 17 in Nov, of 1998,

    He saved me on July 4, 1999 early in the morning (a little after 12am)

    He saved my dad in May of 2004, he had been in church his whole life and was even our choir director, even went to college for music, taught in Christian schools, etc.

    He saved my brother and his wife at Camp Zion in March of this year.

    So you know what that means? 100% of my immediate family is saved! Praise the Lord!

    This wasn't always the case. I'd just like to encourage those who have lost dads, brothers, sisters, etc. don't give up, we were praying for my dad and others for a while, and God got the job done! [​IMG]
     
  2. FundamentalDan

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    Good testimony. It is scary to me when I think of how many church members are probably unsaved. J. Harold Smith said in the mid-80's that he believed somewhere around 50% of all Southern Baptist church members were unsaved. I have seen independent baptist churches as well where large numbers of members in good standing have later been saved. I even know a pastor who pastored for 15 years or so before he himself was saved. Scary stuff.
     
  3. David Ekstrom

    David Ekstrom
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    I'm puzzled as to the title of this thread. Since when does "praise and worship" exclude the "true preaching of God's word"?
    Now, in my younger years, I was steeped in IFB. The first part of the services consisted of good hymns that were written to awful tunes sung poorly to horrific musical accompaniment. But it was fast and it was loud. The worship leader, excuse me, song leader, needed no musical talent but gymnastic ability was a plus. No one had to fear about anybody doing any praise and worship in that service, that's for sure.
    The only purpose of the music was to open for the superstar, the preacher. He would holler and yell and wave the Bible around. Didn't do much real preaching from it, but he did use it as a good visual aid and a place to proof text his own opinions. The less biblical training he had, the better he was at preaching his legalistic and shallow, often blatantly unbiblical, theology. Hence, ignorance was highly prized. God forbid you become one of them "deeper life" exegete-types.
    In my experience, in IFB churches you have neither praise and worship nor true preaching of the word.
    One wonders why so many are shallow professors?
    But that's just my experience. Perhaps you were referring to something else.
     
  4. Spoudazo

    Spoudazo
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    If you'd like to hear sermons from my church, go here,

    www.parkwoodbaptistchurch.us

    if you want to hear one of my sermons, here is one,
    http://bible.tekelministries.com/04%20Track%204.wma

    I know that a lot of IFB churches have the spiritual depth of a toilet seat, but there are some wonderful indepentdent Baptist churches.

    Have you ever heard of Camp Zion? It's not "independent" and it's not part of the convention, it's "southern" Baptist, but not SBC. God isn't "bound" to a certain group.

    As for "praise and worship," I was raised in church all my life. As a lost person, I couldn't stand hymns but loved "praise and worship," Audio Adrenaline, etc.

    I know so many people which don't have a clear testimony of salvation but oh, do they love their "praise!" Our churches are falling apart and most of them are being destroyed by the music program.

    As the church sign says at my church, Our worship leader is the Holy Ghost!

    Outside of "vicar of Christ," I have never heard of more of a repulsive title as "worship leader." That's the Holy Spirit's job. Besides, I can't worship, God can only do it through me.
     
  5. James_Newman

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    How long do I have to go to church before I get saved?
     
  6. Spoudazo

    Spoudazo
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    I guess you're being sarcastic, but no one has to go to church to be saved.
     
  7. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows
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    Our churches are falling apart and most of them are being destroyed by the music program.

    I find that very hard to believe.
     
  8. Spoudazo

    Spoudazo
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    Then perhaps you should visit some churches or whatch some "churches" on TV.
     
  9. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    You got THAT right Spoudazo.I have fears about some of the music at my own church...but the preaching is GREAT! By the way...I live in Taylors but will be moving to Pickens in October when I get married.Howdy Neighbor!By the way,pray for my family...they are unchurched and unsaved.

    Greg Sr.
     
  10. David Ekstrom

    David Ekstrom
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    Of course, we can all make broad generalizations. Perhaps my earlier comments were guilty of that. I imagine that not all IFB churches must be like the ones I have known.
    I think a lot of churches are being killed by stayed, dead music. Music is one of the primary ways we express our love for the Lord. To sing without emotion, to sing poorly and to be content with less than our best in our music may very well betray a lack of love for God. The style isn't important. However, in my experience, the people who criticize contemporary music are people who don't want the status quo to be upset. They are comfortable with sitting in a pew going through the motions and don't want to have to get involved in singing songs of praise to God.
    Good praise and worship music does not allow one to just sit on his hands. You are called to enter into God's presence and praise Him. We must sing with our emotions as well as our brains. And we even find ourselves lifting our hands to God!
    Perhaps there are churches that use contemporary music as entertainment. But there are also churches who use praise and worship music for just that--to praise and worship God.
    So exactly why are we going to church in the first place if it isn't to return our praise to God and adore Him?
     
  11. Spoudazo

    Spoudazo
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    In Taylors, I do too as you know [​IMG]

    I live on Randy Dr. [​IMG]

    Regarding your relatives, what's their names? [​IMG]
     
  12. Spoudazo

    Spoudazo
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    I used to listen to a ton of contemporary Christian music. However, after having been away from everything for about 1 week (no TV, no newspaper, no nothing, just fellow Christians at a preaching camp), the Lord told me to get rid of the CDs I had. I went home, took my sheetmetal shears and turned all of those CDs into shrapnel and dumped them in the trash.

    Nothing stirs my heart more "Rock of Ages, Cleft for Me" or "When I Survey the Wondrous Cross," etc.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. tinytim

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    Our church uses a combination of both contemporary and traditional.
    No matter what you use, true worship comes from the heart.
    BTW I am seeing more "fakiness" in southern gospel groups all the time. I know there are a lot out there that are true, but IMO the fakiness is increasing.
    True worship is putting God first, and telling him how WORTHY He is!
    Songs that talk about what we are doing is not worship.
     
  14. Spoudazo

    Spoudazo
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    True, worship isn't focused on ourselves, but on Christ (nor is it focused on the Holy Ghost, BTW).

    I don't really like much of Southern Gospel (can't stand the Gaithers for several reasons), so I mainly just stick to hymns. [​IMG]
     
  15. FundamentalDan

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    I have no particular beef with what any different church wants to do with their music. That is why I am independent. However, in my opinion, the contemporary praise and worship music is very shallow. While it may not be a cause of a church declining, I personally think it is a symptom. Our churches today are too shallow anyway. When I was in Bible college, I tried to listen to a wide variety of praise and worship music so that I could evaluate it for myself. The majority of the songs I heard were about "me" and how "I feel". It is not about me. It is about Christ.
     
  16. PastorSBC1303

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    Amen [​IMG]
     
  17. bapmom

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    Can someone say how glorious it is what the OP was testifying of!?

    No matter how much "praise and worship" was supposedly going on there, it meant NOTHING since over 80% of the church WAS UNsaved! How wonderful it is that all those dear people can now truly worship God in spirit and in truth!

    Yet several of the first few posts had nothing to say but discouraging remarks! Shame on those who would take this preacherboy's wonderful testimony of revival in his church and turn it into a critique of what words he chose to title his OP.

    Somebody say Amen! Wake up and realize that a revival came to his church! And it did NOT come because of the "style" of his music, it came because a preacher came with the gospel!

    Im so glad for you brother, and for your family and your church!
     
  18. Petrel

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    I agree. I grew up in a IFB church that had a bad music program. When I went to college (Cedarville University) I was suddenly exposed to praise music for the first time. For the first couple of years I really liked it, but then after that it started getting on my nerves. The lyrics were simplistic, and we would repeat them endlessly for up to 10 minutes at a time. I found myself thinking, "I could sing of God's love forever, but hopefully I'll be using different words!" I think a lot of times praise music is used to induce an emotional reaction in the audience, and this is passed off as being "the presence of God."

    I now prefer hymns and anthems that have more depth and to me seem more authentic. There are still a few praise songs that I like a lot, but in general I'll pass!
     
  19. David Ekstrom

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    Bro. Spoudazo is in error when he says that music shouldn't focus on the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God and it is appropriate to praise Him. The Holy Spirit is spoken of very much in the book of Acts.
    I think he may be concerned with the excesses in the charismatic movement, a concern I share. But let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. That movement arose in the first place because of our purely intellectual and rational approach to worship. We are called to worship with all that we are, heart, head and bodies. Had our worship been right in the first place, the charismatic movement would never have been born.
    I, for one, thank God that God raised up our charismatic brethren to show us how inadequate the worship is in so many of our IFB churches. Maybe your experience was different, but I have no desire to return to the traditional worship format that I spent so many years in.
    As far as "contemporary" music, I don't listen to it. I'm talking about praise and worship music. If some find it to be shallow, they are perhaps not familiar with some of the best. Many of the old standbys are quite shallow, too. (So what is "In the Garden" supposed to mean?)
     
  20. David Ekstrom

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    Here's a "shallow" praise and worship song:
    In the beauty of holiness,
    We see you, Son of Righteousness,
    And we bring all that we possess
    To lay at your feet.

    In the place where Your glory shines,
    Jesus, lover of all mankind,
    You have drawn us with love divine
    To make us complete.

    So I pause at Your gates once more,
    As my heart and my spirit soar,
    And I wish I could love You more,
    My God and my King.

    Is there tribute that I could bring?
    Was there ever a song to sing
    That could ever express, my King,
    The works that You've done.

    Could I ever conceive of this,
    All the depths and the heights and breadth
    Of the riches I now possess
    Because of Your love.
     

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