How bad will it get by Nov 4

LeBuick · Oct 6, 2008

Pastor Larry said:

Not in my book. I think they are both losers. But let's dispense with the nonsense that only one side is doing it, or that the other just started. They have both done it for a very long time.
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:thumbs: :thumbs:

Here, Here, I really did intend this to be a bipartisan thread since I know we're all getting tired of the smear tactics and really want to support a candidate based on the issues. This is one reason I posted an Obama ad. It was to show my disappointment with the candidate I pretty much support.

Ken has a good point that unanswered smears is credited to making Kerry loose but it seems there is no smearing match when it comes to Karl Rove. Until this ad, McCain admitted what he did was dumb, his hands was slapped by the senate and he repented. I have not seen anything like this sense so I am content that he did repent which also means changed his ways. He is forgiven in my book.

Oh, and RBell, this would match Palin saying Obama "pals" with terrorist... :laugh: :thumbs:

LeBuick · Oct 6, 2008

Major B said:

1. William Ayers is a terrorist. He and his terrorist wife should be doing life without parole. While John McCain was rotting in a prison in defense of our freedom, this far far far left nut case was bombing government buildings, and he is, to this day, unrepentant, wishing he had done more.

2. Barak Obama's political career started in William Ayers' living room, and they have worked on several projects together to radicalize inner city youth, etc.

EVEN THE NEW YORK TIMES RECOGNIZES THIS! THESE ARE NOT LIES, THEY ARE FACTS.
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Here is what I have learned so far but you can correct me if I don't have the facts strait.

Ayres confessed his past on 9/11/2001.
The Obama meet and greet was in 1995.
The board they served on was pre-1995.

There is still no proof Obama knew of his past.

I have read several conservative reports saying "radicalize inner city youth" but I can't find anyone who will be specific or will define radicalize. I seriously doubt this school was teaching youth to build bombs or to blow up government buildings so don't know what exactly they mean by radicalize and who exactly makes the true report. Was this person credible? Were they an eye witness?

So far it looks more word of mouth than fact but I would like to see any credible proof anyone has.

LeBuick · Oct 6, 2008

LeBuick said:

I have read several conservative reports saying "radicalize inner city youth" but I can't find anyone who will be specific or will define radicalize. I seriously doubt this school was teaching youth to build bombs or to blow up government buildings so don't know what exactly they mean by radicalize and who exactly makes the true report. Was this person credible? Were they an eye witness?

So far it looks more word of mouth than fact but I would like to see any credible proof anyone has.
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CNN just ran a report, if you listen closely you can hear them define the curriculum in these schools as heavy African American studies and studies in foreign governments. They didn't specify which countries and what aspect of their government they were taught.

I will keep looking, perhaps it only matters to me but a word like radical is too broad of a brush to smear a person with. I would like to know specifics.

Oh, and I heard some lady say they were taught to protest against the government. That sounds like an American right if you disagree.

carpro · Oct 6, 2008

LeBuick said:

I guess Obama responded with a counter smear ad to Ayres.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/keatingvideo

How bad will this get by Nov 4?
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Depends on whether or not Obama comes clean about his relationships with subversives and crooks.

I don't look for him to do that any time soon, with the media's eyes closed the way they are.

carpro · Oct 6, 2008

KenH said:

I doubt that the idea of acting on Christian principles will even be considered by either campaign the rest of the way.
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Why would you care?

You support a candidate that advocates the unrestrained murder of babies.

carpro · Oct 6, 2008

KenH said:

Evidently, the McCain campaign can do or say just about anything for the rest of this campaign in order to try to win and it will be given a pass on this board.
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With the media in the tank for Obama, McCain has to pay campaign dollars to get the truth out.

Major B · Oct 6, 2008

LeBuick said:

CNN just ran a report, if you listen closely you can hear them define the curriculum in these schools as heavy African American studies and studies in foreign governments. They didn't specify which countries and what aspect of their government they were taught.

I will keep looking, perhaps it only matters to me but a word like radical is too broad of a brush to smear a person with. I would like to know specifics.

Oh, and I heard some lady say they were taught to protest against the government. That sounds like an American right if you disagree.
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Your wish, read and weep.

Sol Stern
The Bomber as School Reformer
Voters—and debate moderators—shouldn’t let Bill Ayers and Barack Obama off the hook.
6 October 2008

Back in the early eighties, in an interview with David Horowitz and Peter Collier, Bill Ayers remembered his reaction upon learning that he would not be prosecuted by the government for his bombing spree as a member of the Weather Underground. “Guilty as hell, free as a bird—America is a great country,” he exulted. Ayers is now a university professor, but he must have been exulting all over again after reading Saturday’s front-page story in the New York Times.

The article explored the putative relationship between Ayers and Barack Obama during the time they worked together on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a five-year philanthropic venture that, starting in 1995, distributed over $160 million in school-improvement grants to the Windy City’s public schools. Ayers wrote the grant proposal that secured seed money for the schools and ran the implementation arm of the project; Obama became chairman of the board that distributed the grants. Not only did the Times exonerate the Democratic presidential candidate of having anything like a “close” relationship with Ayers—their paths merely “crossed” while working on the Challenge, the paper said—but it also bestowed the honorific of “school reformer” on the ex-bomber. “Mr. Ayers has been a professor of education at the University of Illinois at Chicago, the author or editor of 15 books, and an advocate of school reform,” the article maintained. On Meet the Press Sunday morning, Tom Brokaw—who will be moderating tomorrow’s debate between the presidential candidates—picked up this now conventional wisdom and described Ayers as “a school reformer.”

Calling Bill Ayers a school reformer is a bit like calling Joseph Stalin an agricultural reformer. (If you find the metaphor strained, consider that Walter Duranty, the infamous New York Times reporter covering the Soviet Union in the 1930s, did, in fact, depict Stalin as a great land reformer who created happy, productive collective farms.) For instance, at a November 2006 education forum in Caracas, Venezuela, with President Hugo Chávez at his side, Ayers proclaimed his support for “the profound educational reforms under way here in Venezuela under the leadership of President Chávez. We share the belief that education is the motor-force of revolution. . . . I look forward to seeing how you continue to overcome the failings of capitalist education as you seek to create something truly new and deeply humane.” Ayers concluded his speech by declaring that “Venezuela is poised to offer the world a new model of education—a humanizing and revolutionary model whose twin missions are enlightenment and liberation,” and then, as in days of old, raised his fist and chanted: “Viva Presidente Chávez! Viva la Revolucion Bolivariana! Hasta la Victoria Siempre!”

As I have shown in previous articles in City Journal, Ayers’s school reform agenda focuses almost exclusively on the idea of teaching for “social justice” in the classroom. This has nothing to do with the social-justice ideals of the Sermon on the Mount or Martin Luther King’s “I Have a Dream” speech. Rather, Ayers and his education school comrades are explicit about the need to indoctrinate public school children with the belief that America is a racist, militarist country and that the capitalist system is inherently unfair and oppressive. As a leader of this growing “reform” movement, Ayers was recently elected vice president for curriculum of the American Education Research Association, the nation’s largest organization of ed school professors and researchers.

Despite the Times story, American voters still don’t have an accurate picture of the relationship between Obama and Ayers during their work on the Annenberg Challenge. The paper’s account quoted several people who worked on the project as saying that they didn’t think Ayers had any role in selecting Obama for his position as chairman. But we haven’t heard a word about the subject from the two principals. For the first time in his life, Ayers seems to be observing Democratic Party discipline and won’t be talking until after November 4. Meanwhile, in one of the Democratic primary debates, Obama said that Ayers was just “a guy I know in the neighborhood”—which certainly qualifies as one of the biggest fibs told by any of the candidates so far.

Is it too much to hope that one of the moderators of the two remaining debates will press Obama for a fuller accounting of his work with Bill Ayers on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, and also ask Obama what he thinks of Ayers’s views on school reform? If the mainstream media deem it important that voters know which newspapers one of the vice presidential candidates reads, they certainly ought to be demanding more information from a presidential candidate about whom he collaborated with in distributing $160 million to the public schools. How about it, Tom Brokaw?..."
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Major B · Oct 6, 2008

Here is some more...

More information on Barak and his terrorist buddy.

Sol Stern
Obama’s Real Bill Ayers Problem
The ex-Weatherman is now a radical educator with influence.
23 April 2008
Barack Obama complains that he’s been unfairly attacked for a casual political and social relationship with his neighbor, former Weatherman Bill Ayers. Obama has a point. In the ultraliberal Hyde Park community where the presidential candidate first earned his political spurs, Ayers is widely regarded as a member in good standing of the city’s civic establishment, not an unrepentant domestic terrorist. But Obama and his critics are arguing about the wrong moral question. The more pressing issue is not the damage done by the Weather Underground 40 years ago, but the far greater harm inflicted on the nation’s schoolchildren by the political and educational movement in which Ayers plays a leading role today.

A Chicago native son, Ayers first went into combat with his Weatherman comrades during the “Days of Rage” in 1969, smashing storefront windows along the city’s Magnificent Mile and assaulting police officers and city officials. Chicago’s mayor at the time was the Democratic boss of bosses, Richard J. Daley. The city’s current mayor, Richard M. Daley, has employed Ayers as a teacher trainer for the public schools and consulted him on the city’s education-reform plans. Obama’s supporters can reasonably ask: If Daley fils can forgive Ayers for his past violence, why should Obama’s less consequential contacts with Ayers be a political disqualification? It’s hard to disagree. Chicago’s liberals have chosen to define deviancy down in Ayers’s case, and Obama can’t be blamed for that.

What he can be blamed for is not acknowledging that his neighbor has a political agenda that, if successful, would make it impossible to lift academic achievement for disadvantaged children. As I have shown elsewhere in City Journal, Ayers’s politics have hardly changed since his Weatherman days. He still boasts about working full-time to bring down American capitalism and imperialism. This time, however, he does it from his tenured perch as Distinguished Professor of Education at the University of Illinois, Chicago. Instead of planting bombs in public buildings, Ayers now works to indoctrinate America’s future teachers in the revolutionary cause, urging them to pass on the lessons to their public school students.
Indeed, the education department at the University of Illinois is a hotbed for the radical education professoriate. As Ayers puts it in one of his course descriptions, prospective K–12 teachers need to “be aware of the social and moral universe we inhabit and . . . be a teacher capable of hope and struggle, outrage and action, a teacher teaching for social justice and liberation.” Ayers’s texts on the imperative of social-justice teaching are among the most popular works in the syllabi of the nation’s ed schools and teacher-training institutes. One of Ayers’s major themes is that the American public school system is nothing but a reflection of capitalist hegemony. Thus, the mission of all progressive teachers is to take back the classrooms and turn them into laboratories of revolutionary change.

Unfortunately, neither Obama nor his critics in the media seem to have a clue about Ayers’s current work and his widespread influence in the education schools. In his last debate with Hillary Clinton, Obama referred to Ayers as a “professor of English,” an error that the media then repeated. Would that Ayers were just another radical English professor. In that case, his poisonous anti-American teaching would be limited to a few hundred college students in the liberal arts. But through his indoctrination of future K–12 teachers, Ayers has been able to influence what happens in hundreds, perhaps thousands, of classrooms.

Ayers’s influence on what is taught in the nation’s public schools is likely to grow in the future. Last month, he was elected vice president for curriculum of the 25,000-member American Educational Research Association (AERA), the nation’s largest organization of education-school professors and researchers. Ayers won the election handily, and there is no doubt that his fellow education professors knew whom they were voting for. In the short biographical statement distributed to prospective voters beforehand, Ayers listed among his scholarly books Fugitive Days, an unapologetic memoir about his ten years in the Weather Underground. The book includes dramatic accounts of how he bombed the Pentagon and other public buildings.

AERA already does a great deal to advance the social-justice teaching agenda in the nation’s schools and has established a Social Justice Division with its own executive director. With Bill Ayers now part of the organization’s national leadership, you can be sure that it will encourage even more funding and support for research on how teachers can promote left-wing ideology in the nation’s classrooms—and correspondingly less support for research on such mundane subjects as the best methods for teaching underprivileged children to read.

The next time Obama—the candidate who purports to be our next “education president”—discusses education on the campaign trail, it would be nice to hear what he thinks of his Hyde Park neighbor’s vision for turning the nation’s schools into left-wing indoctrination centers. Indeed, it’s an appropriate question for all the presidential candidates.
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LeBuick · Oct 7, 2008

Major B said:

The article explored the putative relationship between Ayers and Barack Obama during the time they worked together on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a five-year philanthropic venture that, starting in 1995, distributed over $160 million in school-improvement grants to the Windy City’s public schools.

As I have shown in previous articles in City Journal, Ayers’s school reform agenda focuses almost exclusively on the idea of teaching for “social justice” in the classroom. This has nothing to do with the social-justice ideals of the Sermon on the Mount or Martin Luther King’s “I Have a Dream” speech. Rather, Ayers and his education school comrades are explicit about the need to indoctrinate public school children with the belief that America is a racist, militarist country and that the capitalist system is inherently unfair and oppressive. As a leader of this growing “reform” movement, Ayers was recently elected vice president for curriculum of the American Education Research Association, the nation’s largest organization of ed school professors and researchers..
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After googling Sol Stern, I don't know if I would classify him as either credible or non-biased but let's work with his story.

The first portion I highlighted says, "distributed over $160 million in school-improvement grants to the Windy City’s public schools. So the money Obama helped Ayres get was for public schools. What was this the radical teaching people are alleging? Certainly we're not calling public schools radical are we? This according to the story is the connection with Obama.

In the second paragraph you highlighted, it says those things are Ayres "recent" endeavors. Obama hasn't had recent dealings with Ayres. Ayres did the meet and greet at the start of Obama state career. So I believe all this stuff is post Obama "knowing" or "associating" with Ayres.

I am finding too many conflicting stories, some worse than this. It's really hard to know who is telling the truth with all the stuff surfacing out there on this subject. I guess what you believe is based on where you stand. One thing I can say is it's self defeating when the stories don't agree, facts are vague and references are absent.

Again, how does this guy know this stuff? Was he in the class? Is he quoting someone? Where did he get these "facts"?

LeBuick · Oct 7, 2008

I think this is a good statement from the second post.

Major B said:

Unfortunately, neither Obama nor his critics in the media seem to have a clue about Ayers’s current work and his widespread influence in the education schools..
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Again, there is so much conflicting information to be found, how do we know the truth? How is it this guy is the one with the truth? Where did her get it from?

Major B · Oct 7, 2008

LeBuick said:

After googling Sol Stern, I don't know if I would classify him as either credible or non-biased but let's work with his story.

The first portion I highlighted says, "distributed over $160 million in school-improvement grants to the Windy City’s public schools. So the money Obama helped Ayres get was for public schools. What was this the radical teaching people are alleging? Certainly we're not calling public schools radical are we? This according to the story is the connection with Obama.

In the second paragraph you highlighted, it says those things are Ayres "recent" endeavors. Obama hasn't had recent dealings with Ayres. Ayres did the meet and greet at the start of Obama state career. So I believe all this stuff is post Obama "knowing" or "associating" with Ayres.

I am finding too many conflicting stories, some worse than this. It's really hard to know who is telling the truth with all the stuff surfacing out there on this subject. I guess what you believe is based on where you stand. One thing I can say is it's self defeating when the stories don't agree, facts are vague and references are absent.

Again, how does this guy know this stuff? Was he in the class? Is he quoting someone? Where did he get these "facts"?
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If you don't think public schools can be, have been, and are being radicalized, you either live in a conservative area like mine, or you have not been around many public schools. Having friends in lots of places, I get a lot of disturbing reports. When I was teaching at an inner city school a few years ago, I had to stand there and listen while an African American motivational speaker made the following statements, in addition to others.

1. The US Government invented AIDS to kill black people
2. Most people die of dehydration
3. There were nine black presidents before our first white one.
4. Don't believe anything your white teachers tell you, because they are part of the racist establishment

School radicalization has been, is, and apparently will be.

Oh, and these programs don't do squat for reading, math, science, and history scores.

Major B · Oct 7, 2008

The Feds are going to reveal massive voter fraud in minority communities all over the nation.

LadyEagle · Oct 7, 2008

Major B said:

The Feds are going to reveal massive voter fraud in minority communities all over the nation.
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I hope so. And it will be the usual suspects just like the last couple of elections.....

LadyEagle · Oct 7, 2008

McCain needs to go for the throat.
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Yep. Maybe it will happen tonight at Belmont. The world will be watching.

LeBuick · Oct 7, 2008

Major B said:

The Feds are going to reveal massive voter fraud in minority communities all over the nation.
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You mean like the 2000 Florida election where Bush got the winning nod by his brothers state?

I just hope this isn't a racist comment Major as it reeks with saying minorities are dishonest and most likely to commit fraud. You being the good Christian you are I know that's not what's in your heart but the comment sure looks racist. Minority citizens who don't have felonies have to reason to commit fraud. They need only register and vote just like they do in the white neighborhood.

carpro · Oct 7, 2008

LeBuick said:

You mean like the 2000 Florida election where Bush got the winning nod by his brothers state?
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Well, not exactly...

since no voter fraud, and no election fraud of any kind, was ever proved in Florida in 2000.

So he must have meant something else. I doubt your playing of the race card will do any more than assuage your own frustrations.

rbell · Oct 7, 2008

LeBuick said:

You mean like the 2000 Florida election where Bush got the winning nod by his brothers state?
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Um...I believe that George Bush, using any and every possible measurement, won Florida in 2000. That's a matter of record.

LeBuick · Oct 8, 2008

rbell said:

Um...I believe that George Bush, using any and every possible measurement, won Florida in 2000. That's a matter of record.
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Only if you don't count that uncounted votes.

Revmitchell · Oct 8, 2008

LeBuick said:

Only if you don't count that uncounted votes.
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You must be referring to those absentee ballots that came in from Iraq from our service men and women that the Democrats fought to be excluded.

LeBuick · Oct 8, 2008

Revmitchell said:

You must be referring to those absentee ballots that came in from Iraq from our service men and women that the Democrats fought to be excluded.
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No, I'm talking about the ones not punched all the way through yet showed clear intention that the republicans said didn't count.

How bad will it get by Nov 4

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