How CAN we win?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Ps104_33, Nov 12, 2006.

  1. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
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    All I ever read and hear from the Democrats and rouge Republicans is what the White House is doing wrong in Iraq. Here is an example: http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/lorentz1.html

    I never hear any kind of plan from all these armchair generals in or out of politics, on what we need to do to end this mess. If you were elected commander in chief of our armed forces, what would you do? Send more troops? Admit that it was all a big mistake and pull out? Hand the whole mess over to Iran?

    SOMEONE GIVE ME A PLAN!
     
  2. KenH

    KenH
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    I would split the country into a three part confederacy that shares the oil wealth among all three parts. The Kurds would be responsible for law and order in the Kurdish area, the Shiites in the southern area, and the Sunnis in the middle.

    I would tell all of the Iraqis in all three areas that we will continue to help train their troops but that starting on July 1, 2007, that we will begin bringing our troops home and that by the July 1, 2008, all of our troops will be home. Only a few hundred advisors would remain if any of the three areas requested them.

    If the Iraqis want to try to re-unite their country after July 1, 2008, it would be up to them to work it out.
     
    #2 KenH, Nov 12, 2006
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2006
  3. Daisy

    Daisy
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    The oil and the refineries aren't located in all three parts. There is also the question of who controls the port and waterways.

    How united were they? One danger is that the Kurds of Iraq may very well want to reunite with the Kurds of Turkey and the Kurds of Iran in a greater Kurdistan. Turkey & Iran wouldn't be at all happy. Turkey, in particular, would be miffed as we specifically promised that the Kurds would not get a separate homeland to get them to join the Coalition of the Willing and Bribed.
     
  4. KenH

    KenH
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    Location is not the point, sharing the revenue is the point.

    Now, Daisy, that you have critiqued my plan, what is yours?
     
  5. dispen4ever

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    Split the nation into a three parts. Create interstate commerce between them. Each division to have its own central bank. Each division to have its own law enforcement authority (non-federal regulation of law enforcement functions, as in the USA). A cooperative agreement between divisions will be applicable, in the pursuit of violators of law. Reuniting the nation will require a constitutional amendment agreed to by a majority of the citizens in each division.

    Rebuild the army that we abolished, make it answerable to a central authority. Only those who want to serve in the military may serve. The others will be sent home after their hitch is up. The ratio of Kurds to Sunnis and Shias to be based upon percent of the population. A Supreme Command structure to report to the Prime Minister, the latter to be Commander in Chief. Senior military officials will be appointed based upon their expertise and loyalty to the nation as a whole. The re-established military will train itself. Militias abolished under penalty of law.

    Make-work programs will provide for ex-military and unemployed civilians reinsertion into their home community. Each division will have its own make-work program. The USA, Europe, Japan, and Australia to provide financial support for make-work programs until the economy produces employment on its own. Oil profits will flow to each of the three divisions based upon need.

    We will begin withdrawal one year from the day these proposals are announced. We will remain as "guests of a friendly government" only if these proposals are being enacted. Not later than October 1, 2009, all "coalition" troops will be gone, regardless of what the nation does with these proposals.
     
  6. Bluefalcon

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    Since the end result and subsequent possibilities will be the same either way, I say get out now rather than years down the road. In countries like this, military coups will inevitably happen, or the people themselves will elect terrorists to be their leaders (e.g. Palestine).

    Let's close down all bases outside the U.S. and bring all our boys back, and then the world won't have anything to complain about. What are they there for anyway, but to prepare to attack, control, defend, etc., at the drop of a hat. And the world hates that. I would too, if I were the world.

    When someone attacks us, it most likely won't be a country, because if it were, we could nuke them. So when we're attacked by whomever, let's find out who it is and then play dirty, Jason Bourne style or something, but not with all of our boys who also want to enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
     
  7. LadyEagle

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    Sounds sensible on paper, but in reality, it is impossible to achieve. Neither Sunni or Shia would be content in their own region and will continue to kill each other anyway, whether we are there or not. Reason: Each sect of islam believes THEY are the ones who need to be control of everyone else to bring about the appearance of the Mahdi.
     
  8. LeBuick

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    I like the 3 way split but I would also have one federal government with a house etc...
     
  9. The Galatian

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    Turkey will not tolerate an autonomous Kurdish entity on its borders. And they have the means to make sure it doesn't happen. They have been good friends and loyal allies, but this to them would be the equivalent of setting up an autonomous Hispanic zone in Southern Californa.
     
  10. KenH

    KenH
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    Perhaps we could arm the Kurds, Galatian, and they could defend themselves from the Turks if need be.
     
  11. ASLANSPAL

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    Time and a incremental plan ...invoke hope into this region

    http://www.worldpress.org/Mideast/2428.cfm

    Really not your plan Kenh..but it is a good plan to support and opin about
    the autonomous 3 states is a solution that is better than the current situation. We must give Iraq a timetable of when we leave with stipulations that violence must decrease significantly.Will not be perfect
    but again the current situation. We must be diplomatic with Iran and Syria and actually talk to them and not at them.

    There is so much wealth in sharing the oil revenue that the new autonoumus states would see that as an incentive to reject violence bring back civil order and start building relationships...even the Kurds new autonomy must
    get its share (which if just 10 percent would mean enormous wealth and potential prosperity) as for Turkey they are an allie and they are apart of Nato we have obligations to choose them if the Kurds go off the reservation but their is another way and that is diplomacy and making a deal the Kurds and Turks can live with ...all that money should be used to build infrastructure and not create a Kurdish army armed to the teeth the incentive is that Turkey gets a piece of the pie and is reasssured the new Kurdish state within a country is not a growing threat but will use its wealth to build trade.

    Easy no...incremental yes ...the bush option before the election was terrible waste and quagmire...now we have a chance to broker a deal hand over power and really push these regions along with Syria and Iran to root out Al Qaeda...I think that is doable.

    All people get tired of war and violence and hopefully that regions is getting to that critical mass...we can remove ourselves as well since we are seen as gas to fire then let hope and potential of oil revenues be preached and show the people great potential of actually building a society , reject major violence and help us destroy Al Qaeda.

    doable...incrementally ..in 3 years

    now Israel is another question it must be put down the list and reinvogorated later once their is stability in those regions and region (Iran and Syria) and once proven by leaving and allowing this confederacy to exist then we can push for recognition of Israels right to exist in peace.


    Worst scenario ..we do leave and civil war escalates...which would be terrible but history has shown ...people grow tired of war and waste and a
    political solution is negotiated.

    I think the world community will not allow this to happen ....I think the world community has intrests as well(oil, no pun intended) they will push for autonmous regions with strong law enforcemtent with very small military so as not to make neighbors nervous. They too will preach potential and hope and they will let these regions be who they are ...by western standards we may not like ...I don't like how women are treated as cattle...again we must leverage and push for incremental change in that area as well to help women in those regions...but my choice is to bring our men and women home and them not dieing for a civil war so ..put on the scale I choose Americans coming home.

    Actually the 3 autonomous regions could be a check and balance if one tries to be Sparta then we will support the others and bring leverage to bear...again by bringing others in the region on board as well as the world community.


    If a autonomous 3 states is negotiated we should incorporate that into our success in bringing our men and women home and convey to them very strongly they were instrumental in doing that by over throwing saddam and use the bush culture of incompetence as a blip..and preach success to them when these 3 autonomous regions stand up and reject violence.

    It is all about the scale with more successes than failures with the 3 state plan the scale tips in favor of peace.imho it is going that direction anyway why not bring some direction and help to make the sunnis and kurds feel less threatened by the majority.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. carpro

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    The only solution democrats have ever offered is to cut n run.

    They will soon discover it is a lot tougher to lead than snipe.
     
  13. Ps104_33

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    All this talk about splitting Iraq up into three parts, isnt this the same kind of plan that Britain tried in the Middle East after they ran off the Turks? Yeah, that worked so well back then.
     
  14. Jeff Weaver

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    Actually no, the British, IIRC, wanted to keep the old Turkish province intact no matter what the local population wanted. Splitting it into three sections whether completely independent or in a confederation of some sort makes perfect sense to me.

    Hope all is well in your neighborhood.
     
  15. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond
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    Are you really suggesting that we arm the Kurds against the Turks? Don't we have military bases there? Do we really want to alienate a moderate Muslim country that has been our ally?

    What about the Shia state? What if they decide to become another Islamic Republic? Now we will be faced with the prospect of two Irans.

    Regards, hope all is well,
    BiR
     
  16. KenH

    KenH
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    We can't rule the world.
     

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