How do you do it?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by BBNewton, Mar 10, 2004.

  1. BBNewton

    BBNewton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2004
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have a question for those who do not believe that God sovereignly perseveres his elect to salvation:

    How do you not fall away?
     
  2. Skandelon

    Skandelon
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    0
  3. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    BBNewton:

    Don't you think your question should be "How do you fall away" ? Your intro already gives the answer. God is the One who preserves His elect to salvation (or perservere, if that is what you meant).
     
  4. BBNewton

    BBNewton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2004
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    0
    Skan,

    How do you keep in faith?
     
  5. Skandelon

    Skandelon
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    0
    How do you fall away?

    Stop believing.

    Of course one could agrue (as I might) that if you stop believing then you really never had "saving faith" in the first place because the very definition of saving faith is a faith that endures to the end; therefore, if it doens't last it never was the saving kind.

    I don't like to make God's threats impotent by my doctrine. So when Paul tells me to fear lest I be cut off I believe him. And when Christ tells a story of a man forgiven a great debt who fails to forgive another and then has his original forgiveness revolked and then says so it is with your Father in heaven, I believe him and I fear!

    That won't change.
     
  6. Skandelon

    Skandelon
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    0
    The same way that a child does. You know the child that Christ says we must be like to enter the kingdom of heaven. I try to be like a child and not ask so many questions. [​IMG]
     
  7. BBNewton

    BBNewton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2004
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    0
    Skan,

    I'm not trying to change your beliefs, but I am attempting to find out what you believe and why.

    A child is every bit as inclined to wickedness as an adult.

    How do you stop believing?
     
  8. Yelsew2

    Yelsew2
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    0
    OBEDIENCE TO SCRIPTURE!
    Scripture says,
    Resist the devil and he will flee from you
    Resist temptation to sin
    Confess your sins
    Pray without ceasing
    Worship God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit
    Study to show thyself approved unto God
    Keep the faith, baby!
    Resist false teachers
    THINK THINGS THROUGH!
    Acknowledge God in all I do
    Bask in God's love
    Lean on God's Grace
    Trust in God's Mercy
    Fear God's Justice
    Walk in Righteousness

    How'm I doin'?
     
  9. Skandelon

    Skandelon
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    0
    Fair enough.

    Really? Then why does Jesus use a child as a model for what we should become like to enter heaven? What is different about a child?

    I don't know, never tried it. [​IMG]

    I guess it would be like what the writer of Hebrews meant when he said to believers, "Do not tell your hearts grow hardened." People can become calloused to God's words and turn away from following His Word, which is why scripture continually warns against such things. It would be naive to think that couldn't actually happen to you and quite dangerous I might add. Pride comes before the fall and certain doctrines can feed such pride. Just ask the Jews, they had a similiar doctrine to yours.
     
  10. Yelsew2

    Yelsew2
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sin without remorse, or confession or repentance, continue to do so, and soon you will stop believing in Jesus.
     
  11. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    Having believed how can you not believe? Having tasted of the heavenly calling,

    Sin, sin, sin, sin, sin, sin, sin, until you no longer believe, then you must not believe you are sinning, if you believe you are not sinning, then he never knew you. You have already shown how all sin is atoned for, make up your mind, either it is or it isn't. Ok, it isn't so it is sin that leads to your unbelief. So, an infant is born a believer, but the first sin he commits he becomes an unbeliever, but this is all atoned for...sounds like universalism. Sin doesn't matter, but sin leads to unbelief, but sin doesn't matter only unbelief condemns, but in order to un-believe the believer must commit that act which no longer is relevant and the wheels on the bus go round and round and round and round....

    Did John discuss this issue in 1 John? They went out from us because they were not of us? I think he was talking about those who disagreed in doctrine and left us.

    What about Paul, at 2 Tim. 2.13?

    Bro. Dallas
     
  12. BBNewton

    BBNewton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2004
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yelsew,

    So you believe you keep your salvation by your evangelical obedience?
     
  13. Me2

    Me2
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,348
    Likes Received:
    0
    BBNewton,

    Preseverance is due to fulfilled faith being resolved with evidence.

    One knows of their infallibility of salvation due to the receiveing of the evidence of a resurrected spirit within them.

    when one is said to be saved. First it is received by wisdom held by faith. Yet it must be accompanied by evidence which is received in the form of understanding. one then must combined the wisdom and understanding to produce knowledge of Reality.

    babes and children hold onto wisdom by faith until they receive the revelation of the understanding.
    It is young men who profess to receiving the understanding and evidence of reality after being tried of their faith.

    one can believe anything by faith, yet without the understanding. its only a half truth.
     
  14. Yelsew2

    Yelsew2
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    0
    Salvation is by FAITH ALONE! What I posted is what one does to KEEP THE FAITH!

    If one dies from this natural life lacking FAITH in God, that one does not receive the promised SALVATION! So you figure it out, If one can gain faith by hearing the Word, one can lose faith by ignoring that same Word.

    Disobedience was the Sin of Adam that caused all mankind to "fall", The law pointed out all the ways that man is disobedient! Jesus came and Atoned for the Sins of all mankind, but did not take away the ability or desire to sin but instead gave us new instructions that we are to obey. Failure to do so is the same sin that Adam sinned. Do you suppose it will be better for one who claims Christ but fails to obey His word?

    If you lose your faith through disobedience, you lose your salvation!
     
  15. BBNewton

    BBNewton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2004
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    0
    So then,

    In the end it is not God's faithfullness to you, but wrather your faithfullness to God that endures you to eternal life?
     
  16. Yelsew2

    Yelsew2
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    0
    BBNewton, Do the scriptures tell God to persevere until the end, or to "Keep the faith", or beware that you do not fall away?

    No, the scriptures are to man and not to God. God does not need reminders, you see He NEVER forgets Who and what He is. God is eternal and never needs to be told to persevere in faithfulness.

    So, it is man that is instructed to keep the faith to the end, and if that were not possible for man, then the scriptures are full of FALSE HOPE.
     
  17. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yelsew2,
    Do the scriptures ever distinguish between a command to man (spoken from Paul to Timothy) and thereby to ourselves through scripture to 'keep' that which has been delivered to us, and that which is promised as "kept" or 'keep' by God? If so, this is a declaration of God's faithfulness.

    Now, determine that and learn that which is kept by man is the faith that was once delivered to the saints----the faith being the body of revealed knowledge in scripture---that is doctrine---or what we teach.

    That which is kept by God, what is it? And what is meant by it?

    Bro. Dallas Eaton
     
  18. Yelsew2

    Yelsew2
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is there any doubt in your mind about God? Then you know beyond any doubt that God is faithful, has been and will be faithful. God said, I am God and I CHANGE NOT!

    If you understand truth, then you can understand that FAITH is what is required of man, but which is not given to man. What is given to man is the knowledge that brings forth FAITH from within man. It is that faith from within that must be retained to the end, persevering through whatever is put before you, not falling away, not turning away, not taking your hand from the plow, completing the race.

    No sir, the bible is not written to God, but rather to man.
     
  19. Me2

    Me2
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,348
    Likes Received:
    0
    man was born with a cursed spirit. It can not see into the invisible spirit realm for it is blind.

    mans canal spirit has blind faith. It is not a case of a lack knowledge for only God gives spirit wisdom to those who can hear and it is only God who opens the eyes of the spiritual blind. and it is only God who gives faith to hold until reality of truth is accepted.

    The only way for God to open the eyes of the spiritual blind and the ears of the spiritual deaf is to Give man a working spirit that can see and can hear in this spirit realm of God.

    God gives sight to the blind by giving them a new spirit.
    God gives hearing to the deaf by giving them a new spirit.
    God gives faith to the faithless by giving them a new spirit.

    any knowledge from God requires those to hear wisdom. it requires those who can see the understanding. and it requires those who have faith to accept both wisdom and understanding as truth of the spirit realm.

    wisdom plus understandimg equals knowledge.

    When we receive this new spirit. the lessons begins with each new idea. the wisdom and revelation together brings new truth to the beholder.

    When man receives a new spirit. It is the responsibility of God himself to bring to reality all knowledge needed for each man woman and child to become a mature image God originally designed and intends these people to become.


    If God is sovereign. He will do it above all resistance. he has predestined man to become mature in their knowledge of this intended design of the image. that image is the lord Jesus Christ.

    we seem to o easily to forget that Our God is a God of ages. It will require many ages for man to become complete and mature in the intended image. It will take many ages that are changing in time until we become eternal.
    and changeless.

    Faith to hold wisdom until the understanding that is associated and equally required arrives is temporary. for when truth is realized to self.

    faith turns into reality

    1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold....
    1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith...

    Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

    that spirit is the self same spirit of our lord Jesus christ, who is the full mature image of God, given to man. the spirit that comes with working ears, and working eyes and righteous faith ALREADY proven acceptable.

    Me2
     
  20. Yelsew2

    Yelsew2
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    0
    This statement is an outright LIE! I have worked with infants toddlers, young children adolescents at various times over the past 40 or so years. There is none so eager to hear the stories of Jesus as are the very young children. They are very eager to hear the word of God, and do they understand? As well as a child can. They could not carry on a conversation as you and I do, but they do understand who and what Jesus is in their tender way.

    You are completely ignorant to say what you have said about them.
     

Share This Page

Loading...