How do you handle a pastor who has been lying about you?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by doodlebug, Mar 4, 2007.

  1. doodlebug

    doodlebug
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    I'm so sorry, as most of my posts here have been about our church problems, but I have encountered yet another issue that I need to handle, and I want to thank all of you for your prayers from our last issue. My husband finally sees the truth in what is happening in our church. Today, we went to another church, and while it was not the best experience, the message was uplifting and a true blessing....it also helped us both recharge our spirit. :godisgood:
    Without going into too much detail, how do we deal with a pastor who has been spreading lies and rumors about us? We have had three different people (who do not have any relationship with each other) approach us stating that the pastor has told them something that isn't true about us. Only one of these Christian people is willing to come with us to the pastor to confront him with the truth. Our church is already in shambles and we do not want to allow this issue to further anyone's vendetta against our pastor. However, wrong is wrong, irregardless of who does it, and this is something that needs to be dealt with so our reputation is not ruined (for when or if we leave this church, so we can continue God's work).
    One option we considered is to take two or three of the local pastors with us when we confront our pastor. We can't use the two deacons of our church because they are split on everything. There aren't any other mature Christians in the church we can take with us either. Please know, the confrontation would not be solely on the lies we were told by others, but also based on lies we were told about some of these same people by our pastor. Our last option is to walk away without confrontation, and allow people in our church and community to believe what our pastor is saying about us. Is there any other way? :tonofbricks:
     
  2. amity

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    Whew, doodlebug, what a sad situation! Makes me teary-eyed just reading about it. You will be in my prayers.

    I would think that the moral high ground would be in walking away and not saying a word. Just leave it God to handle the situation and accept whatever happens as His will. It is hard to do. I was once victimized by church gossip and turned the other cheek and lost big time. But even though I have regrets, I still think it was the right thing to do.

    What are the other options? Gossiping in retaliation? Playing politics in church? Accusation and counter-accusation? If anyone in the community asked me about the gossip I would just say that with regret I felt the best thing to do was simply to leave. Do not defend yourself, explain, deny, or stoop to doing anything to counter it. That would be the moral 'class act' and hopefully to the spiritually wise it will do more than anything else to demonstrate your innocence.
     
  3. canadyjd

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    I think you are getting ahead of scripture. You and your husband should schedule time with your pastor to address some of the things you spoke about, alone. That is the first step in reconciliation. BTW, your goal should be reconciliation with this pastor.

    Have no further conversations with other people about this issue. Write out your questions beforehand. Pray before meeting with your pastor. Be frank with your questions, but avoid accusing him of being a "liar". Do everything in your power to reconcile; be slow to anger and quick to forgive, knowing that all such divisions within the body of Christ are of Satan and/or our own sinful natures.

    That's the first step; good luck.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  4. amity

    amity
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    Yes, doodlebug. Canadyjd has the right answer. I think I was assuming you had already tried this. If not, please do that first! Will be praying for you.
     
  5. rbell

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  6. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill
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    My heart goes out to you.Check the scriptures.Stay on the high road.:godisgood:
     
  7. trainbrainmommy

    trainbrainmommy
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    Doodlebug,

    You and DH should meet with the pastor. However, if you cannot bring yourself to do that, you should leave quietly.

    We left our last church without confronting the pastor for lying and manipulating church funds. We didn't discuss the issues with any of the church members after we left. However, MIL and SIL still attend that church and have told us some interesting things the pastor told people about why we left. MIL has spoken up and corrected what was said and it was very awkward for the pastor.

    We are so much more happy at our new church; I don't really care what people back there say or think.
     
  8. amity

    amity
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    Trainbrainmommy, one thing I learned from my earlier experience that really does cause me regret is that if theft or other immoral and illegal actions are involved, and especially if they are ongoing, that you really need to do something to stop that so that other people will not be victimized. Plus it is the only chance to pull the thief from the fire. Is it too late to do something about it?
     
    #8 amity, Mar 5, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 5, 2007
  9. rbell

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    If an undershepherd is engaging in ongoing sinful behavior (I'm not talking "philosophical differences" or "personality clashes" here, but ongoing sin), it should be dealt with. Sin, when discovered, should be confronted. It's not good to leave a church under a pastor who is engaged in rebellion. Handle it the Matthew 18 way, but handle it. And make sure that it is truly sinful stuff like lying and gossip--and not something like a difference of opinion or mis-interpretation of facts.

    Don't leave quietly if sin is involved. Confront the Matthew 18 way...if nothing happens through that process, then you can leave quietly, with a clear conscience.
     
  10. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
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    1Ti 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses
    Your story has not met this criteria. Each individaul lie must have the witness of two or three.
     
  11. trainbrainmommy

    trainbrainmommy
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    The pastor who stole the car . . . I think that issue is long gone, unfortunately.

    The instances of dishonesty with our former pastor were blatant.

    The manipulating of funds was not theft or anything of that nature. The pastor simply ignored the rules (that he himself wrote) for handling certain very large funds. (Instead of a committee deciding or approving how the funds should be spent, he was making all the decisions and in 3 1/2 years never even called a committee meeting). When confronted in a finance committee meeting, he lied. The lady he called on in the meeting to verify his information approached DH and me after the meeting. She told us she was stunned at the time and didn't know what to say except to nod. But she told us he was not telling the truth by any stretch of the imagination. BTW, he had told me some time before that this lady was the most honest woman he knew. ?

    We really do not want to dredge up this junk with him. It will not accomplish anything - the church is too full of lemmings and people with their own crazy agendas. Like I read about another pastor, he has eliminated certain positions to get rid of any checks and balances and replaced everyone around him with people who will not research anything and will just roll over and play dead. The church we are attending is not perfect but we don't have to constantly deal with controversy every time we go to church. PTL.
     
  12. doodlebug

    doodlebug
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    Thank you all.....

    Our pastor cannot be dealt with any longer. From the moment he sensed something was wrong, he has been spreading lies to ruin our reputation. How do you reconcile someone who believes he can do no wrong? I believe that if we go to him in private, he will just crank up with his lies about us. If we take witnesses, I have no idea who we would take since there isn't a reliable person in our church that would keep the situation to themselves and not use it as a weapon to further their personal cause. Besides there is one division in our church where one side wants to get rid of our pastor. Last, if we tried to go before the church, we would be stopped in our tracks before any truth left our mouths. The Lord is opening doors (had three calls this week from people saying they heard we were thinking about leaving our church and wanted to invite us to their churches.....don't know how they knew since we haven't told anyone) and we have some wonderful prayer warriors who are in constant prayer that God will show us where we need to be. I truthfully believe God when he says 'vengence is mine', and I believe if we turn this over to God, he will deal with this pastor. Besides, how will the pastor explain why the trustee, van committee, outreach leader, VBS director, Substitute SS Teacher, and overall "do-whatever-you-need-me-to-do" person left without a word? We will not tell people why we left, we will just say it's between us and the Lord. Anyhow, thank you for your prayers. I am relieved, but didn't really want to leave loose threads hanging, however I know what the Bible says about dealing with fools too, and I know that it will be fruitless to deal with our pastor. God Bless.
     
  13. gb93433

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    The next time you see one of the people who told you some things that were not true take that person to see the pastor immediately to confront him. The confrontation should be as public as the matter. If he told five people then five people need to confront him.

    The gossip will stop when people are willing to confront it.
     
  14. trainbrainmommy

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    He'll explain it the same way our pastor explained why the music director - sound system installer, head of finance committee, member of 30+ years, junior church director, nursery director, sanctuary decorator, bulletin designer, church treasurer and praise & worship team left. That the problem was with us and that the church would run more smoothly as a result of our leaving.

    We left without telling people why, also. The best part of the whole ordeal? DH and I grew so much closer to God and each other and we were able to attend church without any pressure and we were able to listen to the messages and we were FED - not FED UP! :D
     
  15. Lagardo

    Lagardo
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    Follow scripture.

    I have been in your situation. I was on a church staff when I began to notice several things in the church that were not Godly. I have not desire to be devisive so I discussed it privately with the pastor. This made me "in the way" in his opinion so I was soon fired. To justify his decision, he told many, many lies about me:

    1) I quit over money
    2) I was fired for not working enough hours
    3) I was fired for a reason that could not be disclosed for the sake of my family.

    Besides all of the above, people were told that there "things in my life that shouldn't be discussed" and that I was very bitter and personally attacking the pastor. This made people immediately distrust me. Only a handful of the church wanted to speak to me.

    I cannot say that all of my confrontations with the pastor were what God would have had me say and do. Sadly, sometimes my temper got the best of me. However, we serve a gracious and patient God who taught me more than I could have imagined. In hindsight, I offer you the advice of following scripture. Confront him directly, seeking reconciliation. Be prepared to forgive. If that does not work, do the same with witnesses. If that does not work, address the church in an appropriate way, either through leadership such as the deacons, or in an open forum.

    I cannot guarantee that this will bring about your pastor's repentence and make you feel better. Here is what I can guarantee you. It will place you in God's will, and place the situation at His feet. Your pastor's problem will be with God, and you will learn that victory is not found in being vindicated, but in blessings beyond what you could imagine.

    In our case, we found that God's will was much better than any solution that I could have worked out. As for the old church? The same old problems are there. Each person has made a choice, and I pray that through the grace of God, they come to understand the things that are going on. The pastor, IMHO, lives in his own miserable prison of self-reliance, and I wouldn't trade anything that God has given me for that.

    Follow scripture. Get in the center of God's will. The result may not be what you are wanting right now, but it will be better than you can imagine.
     
  16. trainbrainmommy

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    Isn't it amazing how a general statement like that is made to cast shadows on a person? I know of a pastor who told people that a man was not filling his former position because of "moral issues." What horrible pictures does that conjure up? Turns out it was something completely benign - a matter of a difference in personal standards.
     
  17. saturneptune

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    We have never had a pastor like the ones described here, in fact, the one we have now is a true blessing from God.

    I have read our Constitution and by laws, and it seems most Baptist churches would have the same principles. We are obligated to support a pastor and further his ministry until it is apparant that he is out of the will of God and on some kind of power play.

    The solution seems quite simple to me, one vote of the congregation. As far as a pastor being able to fire elected people to church office, your Constitution should clearly state who has hiring and firing decisions in your church, and it is not the pastor. This to should be a vote of the congregation, especially if they were elected. The only reason a pastor gets by with that type of stuff is the people let him. If the pastor is acting outside the will of God, the church has to have the backbone to put a stop to it.

    Also of note, there is a big difference between a pastor being out of the will of God and a few people not agreeing with him.

    If a church is letting a pastor fire people without authority, the situation is beyond hope anyhow
     
  18. trainbrainmommy

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    This is exactly the problem. There were deacons DH spoke with who agreed that the pastor had overstepped his bounds, but not one of them were willing to step up and call him on it.
     
  19. gb93433

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    Typical whimps who say they believe the Bible but live like practical atheists.
     
  20. Shiloh

    Shiloh
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    You pray for him!
     

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