How does God accomplish His Will

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Feb 26, 2012.

  1. Van

    Van
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    John uses the word translated world in two ways, for fallen mankind and for the corrupt system of fallen mankind, i.e a worldly value system.

    God desires all men be saved [according to His predetermined Redemption Plan which He knew beforehand] So Dan 4:35 fits with this view. What you have done is insert a bogus assertion of God desiring all men to be saved unconditionally.

    Now for the second time you say those hardened in Romans 11:7 were regenerated. But those chosen are the remnant, not those excluded. Therefore Israel refers to Jews who have not been chosen by God, whereas the elect are the ones chosen. So your assertion is bogus on two counts. First it claims those blinded were regenerated and it claims regeneration occurs while we are separated from Christ, but scripture teaches we are made alive together with Christ, not separated from Christ.

    Excellent question!!!

    If you look back to Ephesians 1 you will see that Paul is enumerating blessings those of us who are in Christ currently.
    Now some of those blessing were given before creation, i.e. God chose His Redeemer that would redeem whoever believes in Him. So because we are in Christ we have been saved, past tense, and we have been given a sphere of ministry, our holy calling to be ambassadors of Christ within the body of Christ, and we were saved not because of merit, our works are worthless, but according to own purpose and grace - when God chose His Redeemer to redeem believers - before the world began. So this verse supports my view of Ephesians 1:4. My view is consistent with all scripture, whereas your view, such as regeneration of non-elect contradicts scripture in verse after verse.

    God causes whatever is His will to occur. But if His will is to allow us to have a purview where we act autonomously, then He brings that about. Thus we make plans [autonomously] but He directs our feet [ we must stay within the purview God allows, and He can override our thoughts and actions if that is according to His will.]

    God desires all men to be saved, but according to His will which is according to His purpose and plan. Thus God desires all men to be saved, whoever believes in Him, and He has not predetermined who can or will believe in Him.
     
    #1 Van, Feb 26, 2012
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  2. jonathan.borland

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    Luke 13:34: Jesus' will to gather Jerusalem's children together was thwarted by what?
     
  3. jonathan.borland

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    2 Peter 3:9: The Lord's will (βουλομαι) that all repent is thwarted by what?
     
  4. Van

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    Typical response. Questions that make implications that misrepresent the OP. Typical.

    God's plan was not thwarted, it was fulfilled! God desires all men to be saved, whoever believes in Him. They didn't, and therefore the plan was fulfilled. God is giving the lost time to come to repentance, but is not compelling it, as Calvinists claim.

    What these questions do is insinuate a plan of compulsion and then claim it was thwarted. Fiddlesticks
     
    #4 Van, Feb 26, 2012
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  5. gb93433

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    If I could answer "how" I would be God. I only have a very limited glimpse of what I think and that may change later. He accomplishes His will any way he wants.
     
  6. Van

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    Pitchback;

    Scripture tells us the answer, it is not unknowable to the degree it is revealed. God did not tell us how He created what He created, Job 38. God did tell us how He fulfills scripture.

    How does scripture say He accomplishes His prophecies?
     
  7. gb93433

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    The how requires a different answer than what he does or did. I am unable to explain how he speaks to people but I know he does.
     
  8. jonathan.borland

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    Jesus willed to gather the sinful children of Jerusalem, but he didn't. What does the verse indicate as to why?
     
  9. marke

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    God's 'plan' for individuals has much room for decisions to be made for or against the will of God, even though God is not willing that any should rebel against His will. When men rebel against the will of God, there are consequences which then become the will of God in response to that rebellion against His will. God's plan for a man might include His responses to that man's sin, but it can never be said that God made that man sin against the will of God as some sort of foreordained plan of God. God's plans include His responses to man's sin of his own doing, but never includes making men sin.

    The bottom line is so simple men often miss it. God allows men to sin but never causes them to sin. It is never God's will for men to disobey God, but it is a possibility in God's will to provide for mercy in response to that disobedience, although God also has other options in response to sin which are His perogatives as well.
     
    #9 marke, Feb 26, 2012
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  10. Van

    Van
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    Pitchback 2;

    Describe how God reveals in scripture His fulfillment of prophecy.

    And you should not be unable to explain how scripture reveals God speaking to people. Through His Word, through people presenting God's will not only by word but by example, and through direct communication, i.e visions and insights given by the Holy Spirit.
     
  11. Van

    Van
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    Pitchback;

    God's plan did not include compulsion, thus when they were unwilling, they did not come. This fulfilled God's desire that all men be saved, whoever believes in Him.
     
  12. Van

    Van
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    Reply to Marke

    This statement comes close to my view as well, however I think we should be careful about our choice of words. God's desire is that all men be saved, according to His purpose and plan, but the purpose and plan does not compel people to trust in Christ. Therefore His will is to allow people to believe and to beg people to be reconciled, but not to compel belief because that would not fulfill His purpose of us bringing glory to God. When we repent [autonomously], we bring glory to God.
     
  13. gb93433

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    Ways in which God reveals himself is different than the "how."

    It is revealed, but the "how" is quite another question. Most people know how to drive a car but have few answers as to how it works. People could say it is made be people and do not have a clue about "how."

    If I knew "how" God worked then I would have to be God. I know He works and have seen ways in which He works. How did God speak creation into existence? I just trust that He did. I do not know how he works in my life I just know that He does. I see methods I comprehend and those I do not. But the "how" begs for an understandable explanation. We know that God loves and that is beyond out comprehension. The "how" does not matter but the fact that he does it what really matters.

    Because a car exists does not mean everyone knows how it came into being. Most would say it was made by man. That does not reveal the "how" it came into being. That just states a fact.

    God is love. How?

    God is infinite. How?

    God is everywhere. How?

    Explain the totality of infinite in finite terms.

    We only have a glimpse of things.

    My point is that I must accept the fact but the how is not all that important.
     
  14. Forest

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    I don't know where you got the idea that I think that God regenerates the non-elect! I have never advocated that. We don't believe to be saved eternally, the fact that we are saved eternally is what makes us believe. Even our belief is of God! God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. Every one of them is gone back; they are altogether become filthy, there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Ps 5t3:2-3. The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will seek after God, God is not in all his thoughts. Ps 10:4. The natural man cannot descern spiritual things, they are foolishness unto him, neither can he know them because they are spiritually descerned. 1 Cor 2:14.
     
  15. Forest

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    You are making our "believing" the cause of our eternal salvation saying that Christ died for those that would believe. How do you explain Ps 14:2-3, The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They were all gone aside, they are all together become filthy, there is none that doeth good, no, not one? That was the condition of man that God had to choose from. Without his electing them they would have never wanted to serve God. 1 Cor 2:14.
     
  16. Forest

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    God does not have a "plan of eternal salvation other than the one that Christ accomplished upon the cross, John 6:37-41.
     
  17. Forest

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    The natural man will never believe in anything that is of a spiritual nature, 1 Cor 2:14.
     
  18. DaChaser1

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    God has his will of desire, that He wants us all to repent and be saved, but also has has His certain Will, things that will for sure come to pass!
     
  19. Forest

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    All mankind are born into this world as natural beings, without any righteousness until God quickens them together with Christ. God quickens them while they are still dead (spiritually dead) Eph 2:5. The natural man will never seek to serve a spiritual God, 1 Cor 2:14, until God quickens him. God only quickens his elect.
     
  20. Forest

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    By God's foreknowledge he knew that there would be none that would seek him,Ps 53:2 & 1 Cor 2:14. Thats why he choose an elect people before the foundation of the world that he would have a people that, after they were reconciled back to him by Christ, would worship and honour him. The elect are the ones that he quickens, from the fallen state of Adam, to a life in Christ by placing his Spirit within them.
     

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