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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 25, 2015.
Or does he not consider the sins of Adam binding to his spiritual and moral life?
...by faith in the Redeemer!
They have no belief system that factors in Christ if thats what you are referring to.
The Jews belief system is the basis for ours.
For the Jew, Adam's sin explained why man is separated from God.
Through Abraham's faith and by following the covenant God made with him, the Jew is brought back into a relationship with God.
Much later through Moses, they learn that God desires holiness (a separateness) which is unobtainable except through faith in a substitute.
Are you saying the Jew's religion equates to faith in the Redeemer and is acceptable to God?
He doesn't. Adam was responsible for his sin. I am responsible for mine. I am not guilty of Adam's sin.
That is not my interpretation of scripture.
Good question....I hope not....but lets see his response:smilewinkgrin:
I probably could have worded the question to him better.
No worries Larry, he is a cool guy so I don't anticipate any problems.
God looks on the heart not on any outward form of religion.
In the past Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness.
He was justified by faith apart from works.
In the same way, Jews of the past were saved by faith, not by works.
Today belief in the Redeemer, (Jesus) justifies them as it does us.
For the record (as noted by RevM), the opening post was phrased from an Augustinian theological viewpoint that would be foriegn to a Jew of the past.
The same way anyone else does . . . faith.
They dont have any faith...in Christ.
No one can cleanse himself from the sin(s?) of Adam.
What Adam brought to every man is only physical death. And every man will be raised in a new body because of Christ. Even those who have no faith. One sin brought condemnation to all, but the one righteous act brought justification of life to all. The is physics death and resurrection only.
The only way Adam could have caused death to anyone's inner man is if the spirit were procreated
Every man?!? Where do you get this stuff????:laugh:
Really? well John Gill disagrees with you!... The sin of Adam brought way more then just physical death... Brother Glen
for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die;
or "in dying, die" F26; which denotes the certainty of it, as our version expresses it; and may have regard to more deaths than one; not only a corporeal one, which in some sense immediately took place, man became at once a mortal creature, who otherwise continuing in a state of innocence, and by eating of the tree of life, he was allowed to do, would have lived an immortal life; of the eating of which tree, by sinning he was debarred, his natural life not now to be continued long, at least not for ever; he was immediately arraigned, tried, and condemned to death, was found guilty of it, and became obnoxious to it, and death at once began to work in him; sin sowed the seeds of it in his body, and a train of miseries, afflictions, and diseases, began to appear, which at length issued in death. Moreover, a spiritual or moral death immediately ensued; he lost his original righteousness, in which he was created; the image of God in him was deformed; the powers and faculties of his soul were corrupted, and he became dead in sins and trespasses; the consequence of which, had it not been for the interposition of a surety and Saviour, who engaged to make satisfaction to law and justice, must have been eternal death, or an everlasting separation from God, to him and all his posterity; for the wages of sin is death, even death eternal, ( Romans 6:23 ) . So the Jews F1 interpret this of death, both in this world and in the world to come.
But Glen, dont you know that John Gill will easily be written off as a Augustinian...code word for da da da....' Calvinist" :smilewinkgrin:
I know exactly who Gill is and quote him often... I addressed the Brothers question as I understand scripture!... I think we beat this DEAD horse pardon the pun thoroughly in the C/A Forum in the past... He stated Adam only brought mankind physical death I disagreed but won't elaborate... Because Shhhhhhhhhhh!... We can't talk about it in this forum!... Its a secret... Brother Glen:tongue3::smilewinkgrin:
If John Gill thought Romans 6:23 was in the context of the inner man, then he was ill-equipped to speak on the matter
... Weather he did or not is each believers opinion but what follows is of greater importance to all believers!... Enough said!
but the gift of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord... Brother Glen