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Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Craigbythesea, May 28, 2004.
How human was Jesus? Let's start with his conception, and work from there.
As one, "Conservative Baptist" to another I am curious where you are going with this.
He was conceived in the womb by a miracle of the Holy Spirit. And so, "The Word became flesh."
He walked on this earth as All man, without ceasing to be All God.
Personally I go with the Chaledonian Definition as being the only one to which true Christians can adhere; He was as human as you and I and as Divine as God
Yours in Christ
As I understand it, he may have been of the flesh, but he was not born of mans sinful seed, but of the Holy Spirit, so he was born without the sinful nature, that is passed on through man to woman.
This simple fact helped me a great deal in my understanding of who Jesus really was and why he was sinless. It was literally a supernatural thing.
Jeff, what you are talking about is monophysitism, rejected, rightfully so, way back in the 7th century. Remember that He was tempted in all points, such as all of us, yet without sin.
If He had only the Divine Nature, He could not even be tempted.
Matt has it exactly right.
Okay, how did He remain sinless? No doubt the human nature was kept TOTALLY under control his whole life. Which make Him even more wonderful!
Please speak to your Pastor about this
Actually, Watchman, Monophysitism was rejected 'officially' by the Council of Chalcedon in 451 but had effectively been rejected by the Apostle John (read John 1 and I John 1) in its earlier guise of Docetism
Yours in Christ
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us"
And we beheld His glory, glory as of the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth"
Just as much human as divine!
Just as much divine as human!
Yours in Christ
Then why didn't God just use the seed of Joseph?
All my life, even when I was a cold Christian, I was taught that the reason for his virgin birth was because he could not be corrupted by the curse of sin, which is passed down through man, from Adam's seed. If God was going to be manifested in the flesh, how could he possess a sinful body?
Matt: Thanks for the correction.
Jeff: This is a very, very serious matter.
Again, consult with your pastor or a man of God you can trust, as well as reading up on this.
Carm.org is a good place on the internet.
Are you saying Jesus had a sin nature? Jesus was surely NOT concieved in sin, unlike me! Jesus had to be tempted by the Devil, not the flesh.
I don't think anyone is saying Jesus had a sinful nature. He did however had a human nature
Yours in Christ
Fully. He was fully human, and fully divine.
The way I understand it, the Original Sin is no longer regarded as being passed through Adam's seed. That concept (which I don't agree with) has been dismissed. Never heard of it until I came on this Board, though. Really took it when I brought up the subject of Divine Blood. That doctrine is supposed to be heresy now. The reasoning is that if Jesus had divine blood, then He couldn't be human. My reasoning is that if He didn't have divine blood, His blood would not be acceptable atonement for sin, since it would be human blood and no perfect human blood exists. However, if one does not believe the Original Sinful State can be passed on through the man's seed, then one would not need divine blood for atonement. But that seems to fly in the face of what Scripture says, to me. Oh well, what do I know? Never went to divinity school, never sat on a Council of religious leaders, all I have is my Bible (a KJV at that, which is not the best translation, according to some).
This discussion is really wierd. Actually, my gut reaction is that it is just an interesting theological debate akin to "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" Nobody (as far as I can tell) is denying that Jesus was fully man AND fully God. How divine was his blood? What a silly question. How divine were his eyes? How divine was his hair? How divine were his kidneys? Pastor Larry's comments on that other link just seem silly - "how can a spirit have blood?" Equally, "how can God become a man?" Who knows? God is a spirit. Jesus is God. Jesus has blood. Am I being stupid or something? As far as I can tell:
Jesus is 100% man AND 100% God. That includes his hands, his toe nails, and his blood.
Why the big argument????????????????
That`s about right
This is no fun!!! Everyone is agreeing!!!
My own 'muddled' view:
He was(is) fully man. If he weren't, then he gets no credit for leading a perfectly sinless life.
He is fully God. If he weren't the Creator, then he has not the power and authority to save us.
Now, just how these manifest themselves in one human being I don't really understand. But, praise the Lord, I only need be found in him!
The statements about his blood, kidneys etc, are in reference to some heretical teaching that has been taught in times past, and in some Baptist circles is being resurrected. They ascribe divine qualities to his blood in order to correct some other doctrinal fallicies regarding justification, etc. They don't recognize the simple truth that the blood itself is not the issue at hand, it was the giving of his life and his bloody death that is active in the work of redemption, not the physical blood itself.
Christ's blood was regular old human blood, perhaps type O positive, perhaps something more rare.
He is man, and he is God. We now have at the right hand of the Father a human who lived a sinless life, in spite of the same temptations and trials that we have, and gave his life as a sacrifice to enable me to avoid paying for my own sin. He had to be fully God and fully Man for his life and death to be of any value to us in redemption.