HOW TO: Fix My Nation

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Taerzik, Apr 5, 2013.

  1. Taerzik

    Taerzik
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    Yes, yes, I'm going to try and kick over a can of worms with this. Mostly, I wanna see how we all react.
    (I accidentally typed 'works' the first time instead of 'worms'... coincidence? Humorous at least.)

    I'm going to come across accusative. On purpose. Take it personally, please. I don't hate anyone here, I'm just trying to wake up the sleeping giant that is the power of the children of God in America. This should tick us off in a particular way.


    I am a citizen of the United States of America.
    If you can read this, you probably have a clue as to what I'm talking about when I say that 'My country is in trouble.' or something similar.
    Well, I think I have a clue, as to how to fix the problem. Here's what I'm thinking:

    Life
    Liberty
    Pursuit of Happiness
    Peaceful Assembly
    Freedom of Speech
    Freedom of Religion (to worship God, not devils and idols)
    Bearing of Arms
    ... and many other beside.

    Those are things which, about 235 years ago, alot of stubborn, ornery colonists fought for, of whom many gave the last drop of their blood in the struggle. They won freedom for us, at a very dear price. But they fought, and so they won, having the Almighty to aid their cause.
    Now, we say that we hold those freedoms dear. We admit that for generations they have been taken for granted. We acknowledge that today many of these freedoms, God given rights which no man or power can rightfully take from us, have been stolen, destroyed, attacked at least.

    If that be so, 'Christian', 'Pastor',(we dare to call ourselves by such high titles? we are not worthy of them) if we truly hold those things dear... If they were truly worth fighting and dieing for as patriots have done... Then how come no-one will espouse the holy principles that the clergy of that day preached boldly from the Holy Bible to the children of God?
    Is it not because we fear for our, COMFORT? They risked their very lives, their families even, to preach and teach what was called rebellion by the pawns of a wicked tyrant, with no earthly promise of success or deliverance. And many never saw it come to pass. Yet they won, because they discerned that these and other liberties came from God and that their cause was righteous and just.

    And now, our liberties, God-given rights, are trampled upon by domestic tyrants of all levels of power. Yet we haven't the strength to do more than whisper resistance. We do not deserve what we are unwilling to defend. Why should God secure to us what we will not value worth keeping?
    We do those patriots a disservice and their memory we have dishonored.
    More so, we have dis-regarded what God has given us in honor of their will to secure such rights as the freedom to worship according to conscience at the cost of their blood.
    We have sinned.

    Put away the so-called ministries. They are not to be found in our Father's commands anyway, most of them. Put away the suits, ties & shiny shoes. Gird on your gun belt. ...he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
    Don't dare suggest that this is an earthly struggle and of no consequence in eternity - far from it. If that was true, then why would God have blessed the fight for independence with miraculous intervention? God is not callous to men's affairs if the cause was evil it would not have been so blessed. If it was worthless it would not have been so blessed. So...
    It has always been our duty to protect what our Father gave us and life is one of His gifts. When we allow murderers to take it away without a struggle by not being prepared as best we could to defend our own life or that of a fellow man, we sin against Him. Don't agree? Try arguing with New England's ministers of the 1770's.


    I know I came across as accusative here. I am as much guilty of these things as the next person. I did intend to rile the reader up. These things should make us angry.
    I was not taught these things by my teachers. I learned the principle from God's Word and found it exercised in my nations History. Then I asked a teacher about it. He hemmed, hawed, and weaseled out of answering.

    Anyway, it's time for history to repeat itself.
     
    #1 Taerzik, Apr 5, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2013
  2. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    I agree ...but Im not a pastor....& this I believe was meant for them.
     
  3. saturneptune

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    If I understand your great ministry, I believe you to be a pastor.
     
  4. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Thanks but I'm only 3 years saved & I don't have a seminary educe...ie no Greek & no Hebrew
     
  5. saturneptune

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    First of all, welcome to BB. I am also a citizen of the United States also. I do believe God has blessed this nation way beyond what it deserves, especially with the Bill of Rights, freedom and liberty you listed. Having said that, I do not believe there is anything inherent in the United States of America that is chosen, inspired or divine. We are simply blessed.

    Basically, for all the material wealth and freedom we have been given by the Lord, we have come to grow to a position where we feel this is our birthright, kind of like Jacob and Esau. We are a selfish people, more so now than ever. This reason America is in trouble is our own making because God has been very patient with us.

    I fail to see how Mainifest Destiny, the American Dream, slavery, treatment of the Indians, the treatment of black Americans in the 50s and 60s, plus many other situations I have missed, has anything to do with the Lord or His purposes for the United States. That is just past history. Forward to today, God is banned from schools, abortion is legal, and we are on the brink of being able to marry same sex partners all across the nation. And you ask why America is in trouble? It is one thing for a nation to sin, it is within our fallen state. It is quite another for a nation, as blessed as ours, to make it national policy to make sins like this the law of the land. It is no less than rubbing God's nose in sin.

    It is immaterial to me what pastors from New England thought about this in the 1770's. No doubt some were and some were not preaching the Word of God. One cannot blame pastors from the decade of the Revolution for our woes. Our woes are of our own making, from decade after decade of greed, me, myself and I. God has continued to bless, and we continue to show our unappreciation.

    You are right, it is about time for history to repeat itself, except in this case it is like the United States today and the Roman Empire of the 500s.
     
  6. Taerzik

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    Those are good points. Especially that second line of yours that I quoted. But remember, those wicked doers are not necessarily counted among God's children. It rains on the just and on the unjust alike, whether the storms and torrents or the gentle showers.
    If I may clarify, first, I'm not blaming the clergy of the Revolution for our current state. I'm blaming those who came after and even we ourselves for failing to perpetuate the truths that lead to those liberties.
    And you're right, there was great division even among the clergy of New England as to what side to take. Every Church of England minister but one sided with King George. Regaurdles of what men did or didn't say though - which side of the issue did God bless? History reflects that it wasn't the side with the red coats.
    Second, I'm not trying to claim that America is necessarily a prophetic instrument or that the freedoms God gave us are ours by (earthly) birthright at all.

    Please read the last section as I have something important to point out about our 'freedoms' that is commonly missed today.

    First though...
    Somewhere, probably 175 or so years ago, preachers stopped teaching what they, those preachers and ministers of the Revolution taught (and the ideas were not new even then but had not been so tested until that time). A major part of what they taught, long before the Revolution, was repentance (as opposed to 'revival', a more modern, less Biblical concept). They taught that for a people to have God's blessings they would have to put away their wickedness. Somewhere along the way we replaced repentance with a surge of good feelings and called it 'revival' (a mis-use of a Biblical term with a particular meaning).
    Many modern Christian practices don't really go more than 200 years back.

    On our 'rights':
    Our freedoms / libertiess are only ours by right in so much as they are given of God and no man or power on earth has the right to take them away except as by God's laws. That doesn't mean that no-one can or will try though.
    God gave us those rights, but that does not mean that we deserve them or that we will always have them. Indeed, it is a DUTY of ours to defend them and not tamely surrender God's gifts to tyrants.
    God sets up wicked men and gives them power for a time and a purpose.
    Sometimes the purpose is to see how we will deal with them. Will we bow to them? Give them God's treasures without a fight? Oops, already did.
    So then our liberties are actually a duty, not merely a right.
    But whether we will protect them from tyrants is up to us.
    Further, those liberties actually ARE ours (referring to children of God) by birth-right. This is the second birth. And they also belong to Americans by birth right in that her founders paid for those rights in blood. Again though, that doesn't ensure them against tyrants.
    Did you know? Children of God have a right to cast down tyrants? No kidding, one of the latter Psalms (#149) actually spells it out and if we look we can see it done in the Old Testament over and over again.

    May I head off an argument that others may bring up?
    If one would bring our Savior into the argument and ask "Why, if this is really so important, He didn't cast down the Romans in His day" Consider that God used that empire to pave the way for the spread of the Gospel. And besides, Christ had a bigger foe to bring down than a little Ceasar. His whole ministry was to break the power of the Father of Tyrants. And he did just that.
    That piece I put in italics in the first post? That's a quote from Christ himself.
    If I may remind the reader. Our God is a man of war, and when necessary He will lead us into battle, whether against the tyrrany of a false religion or against wicked powers in high places, including thrones and dominions of earth.

    Some folks try to spiritualize all of scripture to eliminate any real confrontation or struggle, or physical warfare form our duties but the Old Testament clearly shows that the saints engaged in battle with earthly forces as well as spiritual. Why then does the New Testament say that we wrestle not against flesh and blood? There's a good reason for it.
    Our struggle is not with men themselves but with the spirit of darkness and tyranny which often drives them to their oppressive ways. Sometimes, a king has to be put down and sometimes, an idol has to be pulled down. Sometimes both, ask Jerub-Baal about that one.


    In short, I'm with Thomas Jefferson on this one (at least I think it was Jefferson). It's past time that more blood was shed in the defense of liberty. I know, we don't like the idea, but it has to be done, willingly given by patriots and taken from tyrants and their ilk. I hope it's not my blood, at spilt or at least not all of it but if it has to be, then at least my life was spent for a worth while cause.
     
  7. Van

    Van
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    We do not need to spill any blood. The party of compulsion, the party that tells us the size of our ammo clips and soft drinks, that redefines the meaning of words to destroy the culture of the past, i.e. marriage, are the Democrats. Every believer that votes for the Democrats votes against the Bible. The Bible teaches it is better to be free than slave. The Democrats teach we are servants of government and have no rights that cannot be defined out of existence.
     
  8. Taerzik

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    Something else that the preachers of the American Revolution taught in the years leading up to it was that the oppression of tyrrany was a natural punishment for a nation's wickedness.

    Here's part one of a verse that spells it out.
    "For the transgression of a land many are the princes thereof:"
    Can you say 'bureaucracy'? So there's that.
    But then we have this which explains some of our early history in the second half of the verse.
    "...but by a man of understanding and knowledge the state thereof shall be prolonged."

    For some case studies on this verse's subject, read the book of the Judges. Then meditate on America's position.

    We aren't as bad off as Israel got yet. Also, this nation isn't chosen of God in the same way either. He takes it easier on America because although many of His children dwell here, many of it's people are not of His. The judgment on his disobedient children is not the same as the judgment on the wicked. It's like Sodom but with the ten righteous souls if all of them were as messed up as Lot.


    Edit: I'm going to depart for the night, yall put your two cents in and I'll try to look at this discussion in the morning.
    Van:
    Try looking up the quote about the blood of tyrants & patriots and the tree of liberty. I've heard it attributed to Jefferson but I may be wrong about that. Consider how battles must be fought, physical wars, throughout history, to obtain or defend freedom. True freedom of any kind has never been obtained without someone dieing for it. That is a fact of history. As I said, it's not a pretty thought and no one want's to be the martyr but if it's gotta happen, it's our duty to do our part and if necessary, pay the price.
     
    #8 Taerzik, Apr 5, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2013
  9. Oldtimer

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    Yes, it appears that it is. Perhaps for the final time.

    As a nation of people, we gave away what we hold dear in the long term to those who would put a chicken in every pot. We gave it away at the ballot box. Not a drop of blood had to be shed to keep prayer in schools. Not a single person had to shoulder a rifle to stop the murder of thousands of babies everyday.

    In God's eyes, did we reach the point of no return last November or 50-60 years ago? Or, will it be in June, with the decision of the Supreme Court? -- "Judges"

    When the sun comes up shortly, does God want to see "patriots" standing shoulder to shoulder with musketts and pitchforks?

    or

    When the sun comes up shortly, does God want to see "patriots" on their knees in prayer?

    Patriots who should have picked up a pencil and marked an x on a piece of paper to defend the precious liberty endowed by our Creator.

    May God have mercy on us all.
     
  10. saturneptune

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    I do not know where God's mind draws the line. However, I have a hunch since He has allowed prosperity to continue despite abortion legalized, God out of the schools, etc, that being able to marry your phys ed coach might be the straw that breaks the camel's back. The whole thought of it is disguisting, saved or lost. It is just not natural or right.
     
  11. saturneptune

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    I agree with your premise that the Lord tests this nation on how we respond to tryannts. The price of freedom and liberty is a mystery to most on this board. Most have gone no further than playing video games and singing "God Bless America" at a 4th of July parade. Whoop-tee-do!! I also believe the time span of the purest motives for freedom and liberty were right before the Revolution and shortly thereafter.

    I spend some time on our family tree, and have some gruesome accounts of some of my direct descendents dying in the Revolutionary War. The Lynch and Lee families are direct in our line, plus others. At that span of time, I do believe there was a real sense of right and wrong, freedom and oppression, and repentence. However, as time passed, we changed. We forgot freedom and exchanged it for material things. Concepts like Manifest Destiny, the American Dream, slavery, treatment of Indians, the treatment of blacks that I saw growing up in Mississippi (I am white) have nothing to do with the defense and price of liberty and freedom. They have to do with greed.

    Have our recent wars been for the defense of freedom and liberty in our nation? Or have the wars (undeclared at that) been for the bolstering of our economy and power for the politicians? Think about Vietnam, Panama, Genada, Iraq (who we used to trade arms with), Afghanastan, Croatia, etc, etc, etc. IMO the last time in our history that a legitimate tyrrant was defeated by our war effort was Adolph Hitler. and the Japanese Empire.

    Thanks for posting this thread. It is a fascinating subject.
     
  12. InTheLight

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    Why is this subject matter in Baptist Theology and Bible Study?
     
  13. saturneptune

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    I am not sure how the software works, but probably because the originator of the thread started it in this catagory.
     

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