How to tell whether you are chosen

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by whatever, Jul 12, 2005.

  1. whatever

    whatever
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    Well, there you have it. God said it, that settles it.
     
  2. whetstone

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    Amen. no question there.
     
  3. Jarthur001

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    You mean to tell me...it is God that saves?

    humm
     
  4. 4His_glory

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    Amen here.
     
  5. johnp.

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    ...lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding...

    Fully convinced. :cool: Praise the Lord. :cool:

    john.
     
  6. BobRyan

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    Well, there you have it. God said it, that settles it. </font>[/QUOTE]And so for all those 5 Point Calvinists who hold to the Bible doctrine of Perseverance??? When that SAME person who is given the Gospel today (a gospel that COMES to them in a meeting with power and in the Holy Spirit) -- FAILS to persevere???

    What then? Do you have a "back door" out?

    IF so - what about that blanket statement of "Assurance" you are trying to get out of that text on the front-end of their conversion story?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. TexasSky

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    First - Of course God saves people. No one every debated that. God sent His son into the world to save the world. God desires that all men repent unto salvation. God sends his messages of grace unto salvation to all men.

    The verses quoted do not mean that men do not have final choice in acceptance or rejection.

    Also - regarding these verses - chosen for what? The entire - in-conext passage is talking about the Thessalonians being a model to all believers, and even the verses quoted refer to "power" from the Holy Spirit.

    What about 2 Thess. 2:10?
    "They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."
     
  8. johnp.

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    Hello Bob.
    Full assurance of salvation forever blessed is my continual state. You cannot know this assurance if you believe you can fall away. If you believe you can fall away you cannot know the peace that passes all understanding.

    john.
     
  9. whatever

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    Oh, that point is debated all right. The context is their turning "to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come" - in other words, their conversion as well as what it led to. Their conversion is the evidence of God's choice of them. Let the text say what it says. It says nothing about God's disposition toward all men.

    What about it?

    From another post of mine:

    Sounds to me like we agree.
     
  10. prophecynut

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    Texas Sky
    What about 2 Thess. 2:10?
    "They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."

    Everyone is born into sin, they continue in a state of refusal until God intervenes by choosing them for salvation. All who are not chosen remain in a state of refusing "to love the truth and so be saved." All who remain in this state will inherently not love the Son, resulting in God's wrath remaining on him (John 3:36). They do not make a decision to reject Christ they continue in their sins unable to love the truth and be saved.
     
  11. dianetavegia

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    They REFUSED..... Free will! God gave them a choice to love the truth of not love the truth! [​IMG]
     
  12. whetstone

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    having the will to reject doesn't mean you have the will to accept.
     
  13. prophecynut

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    Who is ultimately responsible for their refusal of the truth?

    Verse 11 tells us: "God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie."

    Why did God do this?

    He did this "so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth...(v.12)"
     
  14. billwald

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    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction. 1 Thessalonians 1:4-5a

    In other, good works is evidence of election.
     
  15. ILUVLIGHT

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    Hi Whetstone;
    It is a fact that every action has an equal recoil, (or reaction) in the opposite direction.

    Even life is what we make it. If you bless others you will be blessed.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike
     
  16. whetstone

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    It is a fact that every action has an equal recoil, (or reaction) in the opposite direction.

    Even life is what we make it. If you bless others you will be blessed.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike
    </font>[/QUOTE]Newton's third law of thermodynamics has no bearing on the doctrinal understanding of the will. Scipture is clear that fallen man 'drinks iniquity like water' and 'doesn't seek God.' His will is corrupt and is only capable of rejecting Christ. Divine intervention must be present for repentance to occur.
     
  17. ILUVLIGHT

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    Hi Whetstone;
    Even when this passage,(in bold) was originally written by David in the Psalms it was true only in the sense that it was what the fool had said in his heart.
    How ever it does take intervention by God to convict man of his sin. Man would never see him self as a sinner if this weren't so. This intervention is why man has a choice. He can choose Christ or reject Him. Even the elect Jews had a choice and most rejected God even though they were elected.
    Can the elect reject Christ? If they can, they can also choose Christ. If they reject Christ are they somehow not really elect?. Please explain how Gods elect, rejected God and went whoring after other gods.
    Jdg 2:17 And yet they would not hearken unto their judges, but they went a whoring after other gods, and bowed themselves unto them: they turned quickly out of the way which their fathers walked in, obeying the commandments of the LORD; but they did not so.
    Scripture is clear we have choices to make I've made mine. I pray for those who haven't
    Every time we sin we are rejecting the truth of scripture. Choice doesn't stop at Salvation. Rejection of truth is, rejection of God. Sin is rejection because He told us not to. You have a choice whether or not to sin. Isn't it sin to reject Him? It's sin because you have that choice.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike
     
  18. whatever

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    God's good works are evidence of election.
     
  19. Skandelon

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    Look at the entire passage:

    They perish because they did not accept the love of the truth in order to be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a strong delusion so that they will believe what is false, 12 so that all will be condemned--those who did not believe the truth but enjoyed unrighteousness.

    13 But we must always thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God has chosen you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 14 He called you to this through our gospel, so that you might obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions you were taught, either by our message or by our letter.


    Now, who do you believe Paul is speaking about in verse 10-12? Clearly he is speaking about unbelieving Jews who have been sent the "spirit of stupor" (Rom 11) and have been hardened in their rebellion. In verse 13 Paul shifts with the conjuction "but" to speak to the Gentile congregation that he, the "apostle to the Gentiles," had started and he simply thanks God that they, the Gentiles, have been chosen from the beginning for salvation through faith, which comes through the preaching of the word.

    You must put yourself in Paul's shoes. Imagine if you lived in a time and place where everyone in the church believed God only saved white people and God met you on a road and blinded for several days and told you to go preach the message of salvation to non-whites. You obey and spend the rest of your life preaching to non-whites all the while fighting and debating the people you once ministered with and respected. You start many non-white congregations and you write them letters of encouragement knowing full well that many people are telling them that God hasn't really chosen to save them. You certainly might write something exactly like what Paul writes to the church in Thessalonica. "They (Jews) are hardened in their old way of thinking but I thank God for you (Gentiles) because God has chosen you for salvation."
     
  20. OldRegular

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    There ain't no such thing!
     

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