How would you advise?

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by RevGKG, Jan 30, 2008.

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  1. RevGKG

    RevGKG
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    How would you advise this man and/or how would you advise this church?

    Four years ago a man had a 17 year old daughter. They had raised the daughter in a Christian home and tried to teach her how to walk with God. Then the 17 year old daughter became pregnant. This obviously was very devastating news. The daughter did repent and seemed to be seeking after God once again. After the beautiful little girl is born, the daughter and baby continue to live at home with Dad and Mom.

    A couple of years later Dad is called to Pastor a small rural church. He makes full disclosure about his daughter and her situation. The church calls Dad and they move to the community.

    Ministry is going well, church is growing. Then...............

    The same daughter (who is still living at home and is now 21 and not married) is again pregnant. Dad and Mom are once again devastated.

    How or what would you counsel the parents, the daughter, and in this case the church involved?
     
  2. KJVkid

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    How would you advise this man and/or how would you advise this church?

    1. To the "preacher" get a job selling used cars.

    2. To the church, look for another pastor and this time....PRAY.
     
  3. Sopranette

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    Why is she still at home at 21? SHE needs to move out and either get married or get a job herself.

    love,

    Sopranette
     
  4. Tom Bryant

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    I would advise the daughter to marry the father and move out. If she is going to act like a married adult, she needs to be on her own.

    The parents need to move towards her leaving. See her as an adult who is making seriously wrong choices and not allow her to use the first baby and now the unborn child as blackmail.

    To the church, I think they need to go through this with their pastor. If God has indeed blessed the church, they need to see the pastor as having a adult child who made a wrong choice, not a violation of having a family under control.

    Very sad situation. My heart aches for mom and dad and the church.
     
  5. KJVkid

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    they need to see the pastor as having a adult child who made a wrong choice, not a violation of having a family under control.

    This is the problem with our churches today....nothing is sin, it's just a wrong choice.

    I guarantee the young people in the church know the difference between a "wrong choice" and SIN!
     
  6. 4His_glory

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    I strongly disagree. The girls sinful actions do not disqualify the father from being a pastor especially since according to the OP, the parents did raise the girl to do what is right yet she chose not too. They did there part.

    The cold hard fact is that sometimes children of wonderful parents who raised them correctly do chose to live wrong.

    Also remember the girl repented the first time and was starting to live right. Can she not fall into sin again after that?

    My wife and I were discussing this last night. If a girl because pregnant as a result of sinful actions, but then repents, should we not then in love accept the girl and rejoice in the life that is born even though it was conceived in sin? I say absolutely. Sadly though a girl who because pregnant before she is married is often considered an outcast by her church family, when what she really needs to to see true Christ-like love and support.
     
  7. 4His_glory

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    Is not part of sin a wrong choice? There is more to sin that this, but at the very least it is a wrong choice.
     
  8. 4His_glory

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    In regards to the OP. My counsel would be the same as mentioned. The girl is an adult and needs to be on her own.
    Secondly the family and the church (if she was a member) needs to seek restoration. This should always be the goal.
    The church needs to rally behind their pastor and pray for him as he suffers this personal tragedy. He needs their love and prayers not their "chastisement" since he personally has done nothing wrong.
     
  9. PastorSBC1303

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    "Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers a multitude of sins." 1 Peter 4:8

    Very tough situation here. But I think with a commitment on all parts to love deeply they can make it through and see the Lord glorified in all of it.

    I would agree with my brothers Tom and 4_His and their thoughts as well.

    Completely inappropriate response here.
     
  10. Tom Bryant

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    the emphasis was on "wrong"... Maybe you don't think that sin is a choice. Maybe you think we have to sin... But I was not minimizing sin, at all.
     
  11. SBCPreacher

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    It seems that the words "grace," "mercy," and "compassion" aren't in your vocabulary very often. They were in Christ's.

    I hope you don't find your self in a similar situation one day looking for grace, mercy and compassion form others.
     
  12. tinytim

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    This is what is wrong with churches today... no Grace, compassion and mercy...
    If I was going to a church with this attitude, I would run from it, and toward God.

    Care for the young woman.
    Work on setting her up on her own.
    Marriage should be a possibility, but not forced..

    Use Christ's advice... "Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more"
     
  13. SBCPreacher

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    Amen, Preach it Brother Tiny!
     
  14. Rubato 1

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    I believe in most cases that if the church felt God calling them to that pastor, then they should stand behind him. He needs their support NOW. The pastor's wife needs their support as well.

    Whew. There is often a no-win situation present when a christian girl ends up messing around. Often the man is unsaved, so marriage is not really an option. On the other hand, to allow her to live at home (which often interprets to 'she's at work while grandma rears the child') is to continue a bad situation. If the stinking boy is saved, he is obviously immature, and may not be able to support or lead a family... It is hard to know what her situation must be: is she weak, needing accountability and supervision? then she should stay home, maybe? Is she unsaved and thus prone to cling to pet sins? Is she bitter about some situation in the past, which bitterness clouds her view of propriety and value--something that must be resolved between daughter and parents or daughter and other church members?

    Please remember and remind that there are always two sides to every story. People can't just condemn this young lady. People can't just condemn the parents. There are dynamics there that an outsider would never guess.

    I'll post this and then I'll be praying for you.
     
    #14 Rubato 1, Jan 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2008
  15. SBCPreacher

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    I don't think it would be out of line to require the father of the child to pay child support to help the girl raise this child. He needs to be held accountable, and this child is his responsibility - whether he likes it or not.
     
  16. Joe

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    This doesn't sound like a church issue, except it would be appropriate for church members to play a part in her restoration if she is still attending there. She is an adult.

    Our former Pastor had an adult daughter (my age) that was a lesbian. She was trying to get out of it when I met her. She lived that way for many years. She told me this on a camp out, she was assigned to help me with the Jr. High group. We talked for hours that night. I don't know how many church members were aware of this. The Pastor commended me for being a friend of hers, (though I really wasn't) and asked me if I would minster to his daughter and he would do the same with my son. I didn't know her real well, she hung with the rowdier church crowd (the recovery group) but it worked fine since I was comfortable with them. I graduated high school with many of them. I changed Adult Sunday Schools for a bit to attend that Recovery Group Sunday School Class (or whatever they called it) to sit with his daughter for a month or two until they all moved. Did some activities with them also. He spent extra time with my son, saying hello and talking with him.


    Her father was a godly man, no doubt about that :thumbs:

    Some months later, she got a boyfriend and married him. They all moved away so I don't know what came of it, but I hear she is still married.

    That Pastor needs support and prayers.
     
    #16 Joe, Jan 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2008
  17. KJVkid

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    I stand with what I previously said! I guess I might be a little rough for some of you. However I have a tendency to cut through the fat right to the bone. Sure, if this girl really repented and confessed her sin then the church would be obligated (might not be the right way to put it) to help, pray and support her. However it happened again under the same circumstances (girl at home under her father, the pastors authority) you say ah.....just love her and forgive her again. Swell, but get ready for a mass exodus of young people. Kids are not stupid! If they have a rebellious seed in their heart they will find a weak link in the church and set it on fire.

    When I was young a teen couple in our church "had" to get married. One Sunday right after the message the pastor had everyone sit down and brought this young couple to the front. He told the people they had sinned and have repented and want the church to forgive them. He was going to marry them that afternoon and asked all who would forgive them and pray for them to stand. THAT PUT THE FEAR OF GOD IN ALL OF OUR HEARTS!!

    Notice what God said in John to the woman in adultry, ...... go, and sin no more.
     
  18. Tom Bryant

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    yes, right after he had dismissed the Pharisees by telling them that those without sin could condemn her... then the only One who had no sin, didn't condemn her.

    Now about your example. The Bible is very clear that if a person repents, then it is to go no farther. If they don't repent, you widen the circle a little (2 or 3). If they repent it ends right there. If the couple was already repentant, he had no Biblical right to bring them up before the church. People were to be brought before the church if they had NOT repented. Matthew 18:15-17 Galatians 6:1

    I am all for making sin exceedingly sinful to people. But making an example of a couple and disobeying the clear teaching of Scripture was as wrong as what they had done.
     
  19. 4His_glory

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    Yet a surgeon is oh so delicate with his task. As pastors we do are not to use the Word of God like a hammer to beat people over the head and then rip into them with it like a chain saw. We lovingly and firmly explain what the Bible says.

    And why not forgive her again? If she is repent an confess her sin restoration is again to be sought. Since when are we to forgive only the first time?

    We donĀ“t know that would happen. And besides even if it did, we are still obligated to forgive and seek restoration if the sinner seeks this.

    And if the girl does not acknowledge her sin. Why is the pastor disqualified for his daughters sinful lifestyle? As has been pointed out she is an adult.

    And Christ also said he has not sinned cast the first stone.
     
  20. 4His_glory

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    Could not have said it better my self Tom. I totally agree.
     
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