Hows This

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Martin, May 25, 2005.

  1. Martin

    Martin
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    Ok. As most on this board know I am going to school in order to teach (at the college/university) level. I plan on teaching church history/historical theology. Anyway I have been planning out my next educational steps. For those who are familiar with these things, what do you think about this line up (keeping in mind nothing past the ThM is written in stone):

    MA = Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary (August 05)

    MDiv = Luther Rice Seminary (?)

    ThM (Church History and Theology) = Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary (?)

    PhD (Church History) = Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary (?)

    PhD (American History) = ??? (?)

    How about that line up?

    I know, I will be in school the rest of my life but that is ok. I am talking it over with other people but I thought I would hear what you guys have to say.

    Btw, I have verified that (up to the PhD in church history) each school accepts the previous.

    In Christ,
    Martin.
     
  2. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician
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    Martin,

    I am going to show my bias here, but I would not do anything that was not TOTALLY RA and ATA. That would preclude Luther Rice. I know "it is in the pipeline" but move on to something else like Southeastern in the first place.

    Think about it seriously.

    sdg!

    rd
     
  3. Martin

    Martin
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    ==That is something I have given alot of thought, prayer, and research to. However both Liberty (ThM) and Southeastern (PhD) said that they accept credits from TRACS schools. Liberty said they will acknowledge a MDiv from Luther Rice as long as it includes 9hrs greek and hebrew (and it will). Southeastern accepts degrees from Liberty and said they would accept degrees from TRACS schools. However they will not be accepting transfer credits (etc) from a TRACS school, but from a SACS school (Liberty - ThM). Another thing that is playing into my decision is Luther Rice's announcement that they are seeking SACS. While that will probably not happen until I have left LRS, I am sure they will soon hold TRACS and SACS. For all of these reasons I don't forsee having any problems with a TRACS (LRS) degree as long as it is surrounded by Liberty (SACS) degrees. Also any further education (history) would be from a state university (SACS). So I don't see any problems, neither do others I have talked to.

    However, having said all of that, you do have a good point and one that I have spent much time with.

    Thanks.
    Martin.
     
  4. Rhetorician

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    Martin,

    Actually, a second thought might be in place here.

    Being as you have the MA in some Bible/Theology discipline, and being as you want to teach, and being as you want to teach college or seminary, you might want to go the "SHORT ROUTE."

    The "short route" being; go on to some good secular/state university (wherever you can get in) and do the MA/PhD back to back. Seems to me you have to decide where you want to teach. If at the seminary then you will no doubt have to have the seminary PhD in Church History/Historical Theology. If, on the other hand, you want to teach at a Bible college, secular university or Christian Liberal Arts University then the MA/PhD would surely work.

    Are you a minister? If so then you will probably need the MDiv degree w/an emphasis in either of those disciplines.

    It seems you must define more clearly what you want to do then craft the education to fit that; i.e., decide where you want to go and then take the quickest route that gets you there. You can do Church History scholarship w/out getting tripped up by all the extraneous MDiv work. But, don't back away from work for work's sake. It will, however, save you many years not to do the MDiv at the seminary.

    To summarize:

    Where do you want to be?

    What will it take to get there?

    But, the Lord has ways of leading us in an meandering sort of way. So don't forget that there is "joy in the journey" if you are walking with Him.

    Fodder for thought!

    sdg!

    rd
     
  5. Martin

    Martin
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    You said:
    Being as you have the MA in some Bible/Theology discipline, and being as you want to teach, and being as you want to teach college or seminary, you might want to go the "SHORT ROUTE." The "short route" being; go on to some good secular/state university (wherever you can get in) and do the MA/PhD back to back.

    ==I have already looked into that option. Believe I would love to save some time. The problem was simply that I really want the church history focus. Sure I could get a MA/Phd in American history (which would be my focus) and I guess I could focus my studies (w/in American history) on the history of Christianity in America. However the PhD in Church history would be a problem then. The seminaries want greek and hebrew before entering those programs. So if I dodged the MDiv I don't know that I could get into a PhD program in church history (even w/ a PhD in American History).
    ____________________________

    You said:
    Seems to me you have to decide where you want to teach. If at the seminary then you will no doubt have to have the seminary PhD in Church History/Historical Theology. If, on the other hand, you want to teach at a Bible college, secular university or Christian Liberal Arts University then the MA/PhD would surely work.

    ==I want to keep all options open, truthfully. However my goal is the Christian Universities (liberal arts). They have church history and american history courses.
    ____________________________________

    You said:
    Are you a minister? If so then you will probably need the MDiv degree w/an emphasis in either of those disciplines.

    ==No, I am not a minister (thankfully). I have the up most respect for anyone called to be a minister, that is hard calling for sure.

    __________________________________

    You said:
    It seems you must define more clearly what you want to do then craft the education to fit that; i.e., decide where you want to go and then take the quickest route that gets you there.

    ==That is what I am trying to do. However I keep running into that, "you need the MDiv", wall. I really considered, after Liberty, going to UNC and getting a MA in history, then a PhD. I even contacted some people about that. Things were "looking up" however when I contacted a seminary about that and their PhD/Church History progam they said I must have a MDiv (w/greek/hebrew). I would love to find a shorter route, and if you or anyone can suggest one, believe me I am all ears (despite my "written in stone" comment).

    ______________________________

    You said:
    You can do Church History scholarship w/out getting tripped up by all the extraneous MDiv work. But, don't back away from work for work's sake. It will, however, save you many years not to do the MDiv at the seminary.

    To summarize:

    Where do you want to be?

    What will it take to get there?

    But, the Lord has ways of leading us in an meandering sort of way. So don't forget that there is "joy in the journey" if you are walking with Him.

    ==Amen to that.

    Thanks
    Martin.
     
  6. PatsFan

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    Hey Martin. It's fun hearing about your plans and dreams. I'd have to agree with rd. While I have a lot of admiration for LRS and seriously considered their DMin program, I think you need to keep yourself competitive. Your MDiv should probably be from a seminary that is more highly regarded than LRS. If you are competing for a teaching job against someone whose MDiv is from SBTS or SEBTS or TEDS or something, it could cost you the job if the school looking to higher you has unfairly judged LRS.
    Tom
     
  7. Rhetorician

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    Martin,

    It was discussed some time ago on one BB thread about "the Wheaton Option." Wheaton has an MA/PhD sequence. It is very very expensive. Check it out on the web and I will as well. You might even do a site search on the BB and find out all the info. They probably have that option because it is more of a university model.

    Keep looking and get back to us for many of us are thinking and praying for you as you decide.
    sdg!

    rd
     
  8. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician
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  9. Rhetorician

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    Marin,

    One other word. I would consider long and hard about NOT getting the MDiv. You can go to many a place w/the MDiv and then a secular (read university) PhD behind it. But, you might be limited in being able to go to the seminary down the road "If" God does happen to call you to preach. Both together would open nearly all doors. Just a thought.

    sdg!

    rd
     
  10. Martin

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    "You can go to many a place w/the MDiv and then a secular (read university) PhD behind it. But, you might be limited in being able to go to the seminary down the road "If" God does happen to call you to preach. Both together would open nearly all doors."

    ==Now there is an idea I had not thought of. The MDiv followed by a University PhD. I will look into that one. Thanks!

    Martin.
     
  11. Broadus

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    An acquaintance of mine at SBTS did an MDiv there and then went on to the University of Kentucky to do a PhD in American History.

    Bill
     
  12. Rhetorician

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    Martin,

    Did you not say above you have an "MA" or "MAR" from Liberty? Then consider doing the "MDiv," then doing a "ThM" on top of that, then you would surely have it all covered. While you are specializing with the ThM, you could go anywhere and build your PhD on that foundation. You would be equipped to do/go anywhere; Bible college, university grad school, university on undergrad level, grad school of Religion, seminary, or even the pastorate. It may be too long a route to consider.

    Bottom line, there is no "short" or "easy" route when following "God's Will!" It is just "one step at a time," where you are at the time, with what you have at the time, in good conscience at the time, following that "inner intuition" (HS) at the time, and with the calm assurance that THIS IS IT!

    It will be a long road! But, don't forget; "There is joy in the Journey" if you are walking with Him!

    No doubt!

    sdg!

    rd
     
  13. Rhetorician

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    Martin,

    Did you check out the Wheaton link above?

    rd
     
  14. UZThD

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    Martin

    Why not go from MDiv to PhD? Why get a ThM?
     
  15. Paul33

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    Take your M.A. and go to Wheaton or Baylor. You can get your Ph.D. in historical theology/church history and be able to teach at either a seminary or a university.

    Get in at the university level and you can always work on an M.Div. if you still want to.

    Garth Rosell, my mentor at Gordon-Conwell, earned his Ph.D. at the University of Minnesota.

    I would really encourage you to shorten up your route.
     
  16. Martin

    Martin
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    ==Yes I did. Looks like a great program. I will certainly keep it bookmarked. [​IMG]
     
  17. Martin

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    ==To strengthen my academic skills prior to the PhD. I view it as a 'test run' for the PhD and, more importantly, as extra preparation.

    Martin.
     
  18. Rhetorician

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    Martin,

    That "I keep running into that MDiv wall" maybe screaming at you so loud you can't hear it?!

    Just a thought!

    sdg!

    rd
     
  19. UZThD

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    ==To strengthen my academic skills prior to the PhD. I view it as a 'test run' for the PhD and, more importantly, as extra preparation.

    Martin.
    </font>[/QUOTE]===

    I think the ThM could do that. I hope you do a thesis in the ThM then, and that the ThM work in general is a little more demanding than the MDiv.

    The Bap in PA , gives doc credit for ThM work in a way as having the ThM reduces the amount needed to complete the PhD there.

    Still, if we assume that doing a ThM is generally needful to fit one for doc work, what can we say about programs which allow entry into a doc program on the strength of only an MA?
     
  20. gb93433

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    Martin:

    My own personal view is that to perfect your theology you should experience different parts of the country. You will learn some very valuable lessons that will go with you wherever you go. I have lived in many states and a few different countries and find those things I learned have helped me to get away from opinions tied to a geographical area. For example if you went to Golden Gate Seminary you would be faced with some very different attitudes in the area that are not at all like the south. Evangelism is typically done differently and their style of preaching will be different than what you are used to.

    Some parts of the country are somewhat antagonistic toward Christians and you will hear the reasons why. Being around those people will give you a much different viewpoint. It will help you to learn how to share your faith in such a way that is probably different than what you have been shown where you live now. You will find what works and what does not. You will probably find as I did that what you were taught may be very different than the way someone else does things. It is not good or bad but different. But it is the difference that will challenge you.

    One of the greatest things that will happen to you is that people will challenge your theology. You will also get to see the bigger picture of how God moves.

    In the end you will become a much stronger Christian.
     

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