Hugh Ross and Creation

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Phillip3, Jan 8, 2014.

  1. Phillip3

    Phillip3
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    Hugh Ross has a PHD from Caltech in Astrophysics from Caltech. He is and Old Earth Creationist and attempts to fit science and the Scriptures together.

    He claims that if you look at the meaning of the different passages in the Bible it perfectly fits with science. By doing this he is allowed to lecture in public schools and he hundreds of students to the Lord.

    He also claims that many scientists are now becoming Christians and over half the scientists that work in Astronomy and Astrophysics are already now Christians.

    He claims that with new space telescopes they have literally been able to see back to the Creation event (the big bang) in which the entire universe was created from a "singularity" 14.7 million years ago.

    Even non-believer Steven Hawkings said that there was an infinitely powerful causal event to the "big bang".

    Before anybody jumps the gun, he does NOT believe in evolution and in his debates provides scientific evidence why it is not true. This allows for the relatively short time frame of actual history of mankind and the Bible. Plus, it allows for the dinosaurs and why there are never human fossils even near their fossils.

    I am looking for the opinions of those who have seen at least one of his debates on the John Ackerberg show and or his lectures on Young Earth creation.

    I am looking for opinions of Hugh Ross and his theory (Please do not bring the specifics of his debates into this forum. This thread is NOT intended to start a debate over creation.)

    If you have not seen Hugh Ross debate I encourage you to do so and come back and post about it.

    Specifically I would like to know:

    Who did he debate with?

    Who do you think won the debate by providing the best information?

    Did he convince you that all or part of his theories were correct?

    Your beliefs before and after, if you wish to share. I think many of you may find a lot of answers to questions.

    Be aware Hugh Ross believes in what, he calls, a worldwide flood (all of the population at that time but confined to the North African/Middle East area) vs. a global flood.

    These two beliefs are not mutually exclusive.

    Explain what you agree with and disagree with.

    Again, NO debating the details. Either you buy it or you don't. :thumbsup:
     
  2. Phillip3

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    Links to debates

    Here is a list of debates that I recommend. There are some with creationists that in my opinion use pseudoscience to present their argument such as Kent Hovind who is now in prison for tax fraud.

    If you just want a one hour seminar on creation This is a one hour seminar. I highly recommend this whether or not you watch a debate.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UPvO2EkiLls

    This is a very good debate that is long enough for Hugh to present a good overview of his beliefs.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWo20SO5TUs


    Here is a longer video if you really want to get a dose. (5 hours).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r4dpVpS38Cc
     
  3. Yeshua1

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    He seems to be one whp takes science over the scriptures, as he forces the Bible thru the lesnse of science, not the bible having final say, as that is why he gets Billions of years, and local flood for example!
     
  4. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    You place unreasonable limitations on this thread, and likely won't get anyone to participate, because 1) no one is going to spend hours looking at videos of someone trying to prove an unbiblical view of The Creation Story, and 2) you don't want to hear an opposing view, you simply want confirmation of what you have decided is true.

    That said, I will state flatly that Dr. Ross, meaning well, errs seriously in claiming to be able to fit 14.7 billion years into the actual 1,656 years recorded in God's word between God hand-crafting Adam and Eve and breathing life into them, and The Flood. Dr. Ross is a brother in Christ, but Dr. Ross is wrong about creation.
     
  5. preachinjesus

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    I know Dr Ross and have had him both present at the church where I serve and heard him present in other venues. I'm also a supporter of reasons.org.

    Anyhoo, I largely agree with Dr Ross and am an old, very old, earth creationist. Of course I say creation appears to be billions of years old.

    One of the attractive parts of his theory is the notion of the multiverse. I have yet to see a concrete refutation beyond wild rhetorical whimsy that refutes his position. :)
     
  6. Phillip3

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    Thank you for your post. I would imagine it was Hugh's information and the way he can present it so well gave you the answer to questions about how our it may be a faulty interpretation of the Bible and not science with the exception of evolution is wrong. Ninety nine percent of science is based on observed factual evidence.

    Now, here is the problem. How do we get people to spend a few hours to just see if Hugh might present enough facts he can convince them so that we Christians can set about winning all of our kids to Christ.

    Maybe I should challenge them to see if their faith can stand the test instead of present it the other way around. Or better yet, see how well the short age creationist debater steps all over Hugh Ross? :BangHead:
     
  7. Phillip3

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    Just watch the one hour lecture. Then comment. The top link . . . :smilewinkgrin:
     
  8. Phillip3

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    Actually, I made a bit mistake on the links page. The top link is strictly science. He does show, however, with science that an "infinite power" was required to make the universe. Strangely enough, Steven Hawkings says the same thing. He just ignores it though because it is out of his realm of study.
     
  9. Phillip3

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    Actually, I made a bit mistake on the links page. The top link is strictly science. He does show, however, with science that an "infinite power" was required to make the universe. Strangely enough, Steven Hawkings says the same thing. He just ignores it though because it is out of his realm of study.

    In order to see how it applies to the Bible you should simply watch a debate and see if his evidence is powerful enough. Yes, it is a challenge. If the Old Earth model of Creation is sweeping through so many churches and schools converting atheist kids to Christ with a wrong Creation Model you better know what its all about so it can be corrected.

    Didn't I hear Hugh Ross say half of all the astrophysicists in the United States are now Christians?

    I also like his scientific evidence that evolution doesn't work.

    Again, I'm trying to motivate people to watch one of the debates and post the information I requested. That is the purpose of this thread. It is not located in the Baptist Debate Forum. If you haven't seen a presentation or debate either in person or on the net. Don't bother..............thank you
     
  10. Yeshua1

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    Arewe sure that a large portion have become Christians, or that they have become believers in Intelligent design?

    There is a big difference, as one can hold to God existing/creating, but not Jesus as Lord and Messiah, God Incarnate!
     
  11. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    You won't. Not unless you don't tell them he is trying to deny biblical teaching, because that is what he is doing.

    That is assuming we have come to your young-Earth conclusions without studying or considering alternatives. In fact, I am a "four-percenter" -- an adult who came to Christ after the age of 40. Only 4% of Christians do. I was a buyer and absorber of everything evolutionist -- until confronted with God's truth, and came to realize anything that attempts to interpret Genesis other than as a factual account of The Creation is a false doctrine, or bad science.
     
  12. quantumfaith

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    This number, I am just simply curious, not attempting to be provocative, but how would you respond/react "at this time and point in your life" if you were a student in a Biology/Miro Biology/Genetics class, with the knowledge that the Professor was a believing christian but teaching on concepts of evolution?
     
  13. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    :smilewinkgrin:

    Funny you should ask. I'm having to (finally -- yuck) take biology. I didn't have to for my previous degrees, including my BA in psychology, but for the Masters program I'm enrolled in at Mizzou, I have to take undergrad-level biology.

    I don't know what the bent of my professor is, as classes don't start until next week, but I don't expect to be dealing with a Christian. I expect to encounter some resistance to my beliefs, though I'd be pleasantly surprised not to have to enter into that discussion. Regardless, whether a Christian or not, and no matter how "reasonably" he/she attempted to present the evidence of an old earth from a faith/science perspective, I just can't buy it. The reality is, God is too straightforward and honest a Being to do things in a complicated, unreasonable manner and has stated plainly and simply that He spoke everything into existence. I believe that, and won't be swayed, because the evidence favors that methodology over the long-term, unrealistic evolutionary process.
     
  14. quantumfaith

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    I do understand the confidence in your personal position, I am not making light of that, but more interested in if you think you would "challenge" the Prof or not, or have any discussions with the Prof in your office. Being a math person, I do not get the opportunity to discuss such with my classes, although I do get to incoporate OE concepts when teaching the Law of Exponential Growth and Decay.
     
  15. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Do I challenge "old Earth" thinking on the Board here?

    :laugh:

    So, yeah ... in the same calm, easy-going, reasonable manner, I'll speak up for my beliefs -- and I expect I will have to do so.
     
  16. quantumfaith

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    f(t)= Ae^kt
     
  17. Phillip3

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    Be aware that Hugh Ross is the ONLY scientist I have ever seen that can provide tons of evidence refuting evolution.

    Old Earth and evolution and NOT mutually exclusive.

    I know how rough it gets in the debate columns because I was a moderator there. If we discuss this nicely I don't see why we shouldn't continue.

    I do have a question for you. How do you literally interpret "In the "Day" of the Lord."? As used in the Bible?
     
  18. Yeshua1

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    You never heard of henry Morris, nor the Creationist Museum then?

    Day in genesis as 24 hrs literal a single day each time

    Day of the Lord a prophetic term, referring to end times involving isreal, and the coming back of Jesus!
     
  19. Van

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    The good Doctor has made a valuable effort to mesh science with the Bible. Was he successful? He certainly provides useful insights into biblical interpretation and science. Does he make a compelling case? Not in my opinion. OTOH, by reading some of his articles, he helped me clarify my thinking concerning theories of origin.
     
  20. Yeshua1

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    Just to clarify, he is a creationist holding to old age views, but not holding to Theistic Evolution?
     

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