I am ready to stop being premillenial.

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Daniel David, Feb 25, 2005.

  1. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    But first, I need either an amill, postmill, or preterist (any kind will do), to point out to me where Jesus made a 7 year covenant with ANYONE.

    In Daniel 9, these groups INSIST that it is Christ that makes a covenant with many. The lenght of the covenant is the last week or 7 years of the prophecy.

    So, for those who insist on their interpretation, it ought to be easy to show me what I need.

    I eagerly anticipate an answer. Thanks guys.
     
  2. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    I hope you didn't pray for patience :(
    God might give it to you [​IMG]
     
  3. carlaimpinge

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    David,

    I don't want you to stop being a premillenialist, but I do want you to start being biblical, which INCLUDES belief that the Messiah CONFIRMS the covenant. Now brother, I'm going to step out of the "traditional mold" of interpretation, and give you some VERSES.

    According to Daniel, a covenant is CONFIRMED, not made, testifying to it being MADE by others PREVIOUSLY. This will be the MANY, which is the people of Jerusalem in context. The covenant is Mosaic, which is found in the context of the chapter several times. (9:4-5,10-14) The Mosaic covenant is connected with a CURSE, which is the CURSE of the law. (Deut.27-28) THE LORD CONFIRMED his curse by scattering (Lev.26, 2 Chron.36) in the context. Daniel's prophecy speaks of RESTORATION from the curse.

    HE CONFIRMS the Mosaic covenant with them for 7 years DUE TO THEIR SEEKING HIM, and making a vow, taking an OATH to seek him, as he did throughout the OT when they "returned" back to him. (See Josiah, Hezekiah, etc.) Just as they DEPART from seeking him AGAIN (as all through the OT), he VOIDS THE COVENANT due to their nonfullfillment. His confirmation was by SILENCE, which constitutes ALLOWANCE. (Num.30) Israel is a "forgiven" harlot wife at this time, who returns. (Hos.3)

    In the midst of the week, HE causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease through his ROD, the Assyrian. (Isaiah 10) Due to the idols, the Lord makes it desolate for that which he had determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (Isaiah 10, 28, 62) Read about the FUTURE DESOLATION thoroughly in Jeremiah and Lamentations.

    There's nothing new under the sun. (Solomon the PREACHER)

    It's ALL in the Book, brother.
     
  4. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    What? When did Christ confirm the 7 year covenant?
     
  5. Deafmidweeker

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    Hello Daniel David,

    Carlaimpinge is right. I explain it in more details on verses 26 and 27 of Daniel 9.

    "26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

    That verse say the Messiah will be cut off after 62 weeks, and it refers to the Lord Jesus Christ's Death and Sacrifice on the cross for our sins. The phrase "the people of the prince that shall come" shows that the people are the Apostate Jews and the "prince" is the Lord Jesus Christ. The apostate Jews will destroy and defile the city of Jerusalem and the Temple. It will happen starting in the midst of the 70th Week which is the 4th Year. It will start the Great Tribulation spoken by the Lord Jesus Christ. It does not refer to the Rome or Romans or the Roman prince which supposed to be the Anti-Christ. Rome is NEVER mentioned at all in the Old Testament Scriptures. All the OT endtime prophecies about nations invading Jerusalem are in the Middle East.

    "27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Lord Jesus Christ will confirm the covenant with the people of Israel, including Jerusalem. He will confirm by SILENCE. That meant the people of Israel will agree to start animal sacrifices and to build the Jewish Temple. The Temple must rebuilt in time so Satan as a MAN can come into that Temple and sit and said he is God in the flesh. So when the midst of the week comes in the abomination of desolation in the temple is committed by the apostate Jews, then the LORD turns the Son of Perdition loose on the people of Israel, almost destroying the Jewish race, leaving a remmant left to start the Millennium.

    DeafMidweeker
     
  6. DeafPosttrib

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    Next week,

    I will make post to discuss on Daniel 9:24-27. I already read Carl's topic "Daniel 70th Week", a week ago. I disagree with his intepreting. I will discuss on this next week.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  7. carlaimpinge

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    David,

    He WILL CONFIRM it. It's FUTURE, based on their SEEKING of him.

    In Christ Jesus,
    Carl
     
  8. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    Hey dpt, why not comment on this thread? Why not spell out where Christ made a covenant for 7 years?

    Hey other premillers, this isn't for you to answer. I want one of the aberations to answer.
     
  9. Ed Edwards

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    The Message

    Daniel 9:26 (The Message):
    After the sixty-two sevens, the Anointed Leader will be killed - the end of him. The city and Sanctuary will be laid in ruins by the army of the newly arriving leader. The end will come in a rush, like a flood. War will rage right up to the end, desolation the order of the day.

    Daniel 9:26-27 (HCSB = Holman Christian Standard Bible):
    26 After those 62 weeks

    the Messiah will be cut off

    and will have nothing.

    The people of the coming prince

    will destroy the city and the sanctuary.


    The end will come with a flood,

    and until the end there will be war;

    desolations are decreed.

    27 He will make a firm covenant

    with many for one week,

    but in the middle of the week

    he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering.

    And the abomination of desolation

    will be on a wing of the temple

    until the decreed destruction

    is poured out on the desolator."

    The HCSB translators take a stand: the small 'h' in 'he' denotes the other prince, the non-Messiah prince.

    Sorry guys, today's Bibles have removed confusion on this verse. Not to mention that by using a capital 'h' in 'He' we can give honor in our pornouns to members of the Blessed Trinity: our wonderful Father God, his glorious Son: Messiah Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.
     
  10. Plain ol' Ralph

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  11. rsr

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    Sure. Probably with loaded dice, though.
     
  12. Ed Edwards

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    Dan 9:26 (KJV1611 edition):
    And after threescore and two weekes, shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himselfe, and the people of the Prince that shall come, shall destroy the citie, and the Sanctuarie, and the ende thereof shall be with a flood, and vnto the ende of the warre desolations are determined.

    Bible changer read it:
    And after threescore and two weekes, shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himselfe, and the Jewish people of He that shall come, shall destroy the citie, and the Sanctuarie, and the ende thereof shall be with a flood, and vnto the ende of the warre desolations are determined.

    Come on, the Bible has always spoken of TWO PRINCES in Daniel 9:
    the Good Messiah Prince and the Evil Prince to come whose
    coming causes a flood of desolations: the Christ and the Antichrist;
    the Messiah and the Anti-messiah. It would be helpful if you
    could keep them straight.

    Dan 9:27 (the Real Bible: KJV1611 edition):
    And hee shall confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the midst of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and ||for the ouerspreading of abominations hee shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation, & that determined, shalbe powred vpon the desolate.

    Margine note: ||Or, with the abominable armies.

    The second best reading of this verse is:

    And hee shall confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the midst of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and with the abominable armies hee shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation, & that determined, shalbe powred vpon the desolate.

    Sorry, but if Jesus needed armies to help Him overcome the temple, then those armies would be angels -- can angels be "abominable armies"?
     
  13. carlaimpinge

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    Daniel,

    The boys (premillenial preweek, amillenial posttrib) like to come play with me when they see my name.

    Today's "variant versions" are THEOLOGICAL perversions, just as the NWT (a god, John 1:1) and the NKJV. (Capitalized He, referencing Deity, assumed to be the Holy Spirit in 2 Thess.2)They're teaching DOCTRINAL LIES according to what they believe. When every "persuasion" gets one, they'll all be happy with their "belief" from fabricated prooftexts.
     
  14. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    carl, are you midtrib?
     
  15. carlaimpinge

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    Daniel,

    No sir. I'm midweek, which is quite different from midtrib. It is biblical pretribulationism, for the ONLY "eschatalogical time of tribulation" is defined by the Lord Jesus as STARTING at the midst of Daniel's week with the abomination of desolation and invasion of Jerusalem. (Dan.9, Matt.24, Mark 13, Luke 21)
     
  16. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    I got ya.
     

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