I believe in unicorns, Do you

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by freeatlast, Feb 24, 2011.

  1. freeatlast

    freeatlast
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    I came across this short video that was very well done, and decided I share it with you all. Skeptics come up with so many arguments against Scripture, and though one cannot have an in-depth knowledge of every single point brought up, we are required to study the Word and be able to "give an answer to every man that asketh a reason of the hope that is in [us

    http://biblestudynow.webs.com/apps/blog/entries/show/6242069-i-believe-in-unicorns-do-you-
     
  2. BobinKy

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    I have run across many presentations about the unicorn of the Bible . This video is well done. Thanks for sharing.

    ...Bob



    [​IMG]
     
  3. DHK

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    The trouble with that link is that unicorns were not indigenous to Palestine. There are or were no unicorns there. I believe the proper translation of the Hebrew word Reem is "wild ox." Here are some other translations one can look at:

    His majesty is as the firstling of his ox; And his horns are as the horns of a buffalo. With them shall he push the peoples Together to the ends of the earth. These are the myriads of Ephraim, And these are the thousands of Manasseh. (Deuteronomy 33:17) Darby

    The firstborn of his herd, majesty is his; His horns are the horns of the wild-ox: With them he shall push the peoples all of them, even the ends of the earth: They are the ten thousands of Ephraim, They are the thousands of Manasseh. (Deuteronomy 33:17) WEB

    The firstling of his herd, majesty is his; And his horns are the horns of the wild-ox: With them he shall push the peoples all of them, even the ends of the earth: And they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, And they are the thousands of Manasseh. (Deuteronomy 33:17) ASV
     
  4. freeatlast

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    it sounds like you responded with a negative and did not even watch the video. Certainly you did not do that as that would be a really lowly response from someone who holds a moderator position. None the less where is your facts that there was no rhino in Palestine during the time of Job.
     
  5. DHK

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    Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions. Yes I did watch the video.
    1. He took much of his conclusions from the Latin.
    2. He never even touched the Hebrew word Reem, from which our OT is translated from.
    3. He didn't take into consideration the animals indigenous to the land.

    Those are three grave errors in the video. His video was a typical KJVO video, the typical arguments that one defending the inspiration and infallibility of the King James Version (as most Ruckmanites) would use. I have done plenty of research on this just for that reason alone. I don't believe that the KJV is the inspired infallible word of God, went through a secondary inspiration in 1611, etc. and this is one of my examples that I often use.
    The word most likely means a wild ox.
     
  6. freeatlast

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    Again prove that there was no rhinos at the time of Job and prove that the term means wild ox and finally show how any of this disprove the intent of the video
    .
     
  7. DHK

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    Do your own study. Where do you find Rhinos? Not in the land of Palestine!
    What is a Rheem? Look it up in a Hebrew Lexicon for yourself! Look in other translations, such as I quoted to you.
    The video is just like the articles that I have read that go out of the way to prove that the KJV is inspired. It doesn't have a Biblical leg to stand on. It doesn't even deal with the Hebrew.
     
  8. freeatlast

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    You are the one who made the attack. GIVE THE PROOF OF YOUR ATTACK or are you another false accuser that just makes false attacks like satan does without any evidence?
     
  9. InTheLight

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    I took a look at the website at the link provided. I needed my tinfoil hat. :laugh:
     
  10. DHK

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    Freeatlast, put together, these three points make a solid case:
    I don't have to go into any further detail than that.
    He tried to make a case from Latin. The OT is translated from Hebrew not Latin. Why not use Spanish instead, or perhaps French or maybe a Bengali Bible. The OT was written originally in Hebrew not in a translation like Latin. Latin is simply one of many translations.

    2. He avoided other translations, very few, if any, used the word (a mistranslation) "unicorn." This is one place in the KJV where the translators erred. It is a mistaken translation. So what is it where they erred? Certainly not a rhinoceros. Did Paul or Peter ever come in contact with one? This is the general land of Palestine we are talking about. Job lived in the same era as Abraham. God promised Abraham the same land that Israel now has and a little bit more. There are no rhinos there. Where do the rhinos live? In India, and in inland Africa; not in the areas spoken of in the Bible. You don't find rhinos around Cairo and Alexandria in northern Africa, and you don't find them in the Sahara. You don't find them in Jerusalem and in its surrounding area. They were never there.

    Now if you don't believe me, do your own homework, and stop defending a KJVO site.
     
  11. freeatlast

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    I see that you have made false accusations without giving proof. Give proof of your accusations. You don't find lions around Jerusalem either today. They are in Africa. However we know that they were in the country as some point in time. Give your proof as to your words or are you attacking with just false accusations? satan does that and then hides with more false words. Show your proof to your statement!
     
  12. DHK

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    I have presented my case. This is a debate forum. The nature of debate is for one person to present their case and then for the other to refute it. If all you have is to: deny, deny, deny, then surrender your white flag now. This debate is over. I have nothing more to discuss with you. You have offered nothing in refutation of what I have given you. I am not interested in one who sits there and keeps pushing the "deny" button without anything to offer. Sorry.
     
  13. freeatlast

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    There is nothing wrong with correcting something that is in error. In fact it is very good. However to make something look like error without any documentation or ability to support it is [personal attack deleted]
     
    #13 freeatlast, Feb 25, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2011
  14. DHK

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    I have given you evidence and you refuse to believe it. I take it that you don't even read my posts carefully. This is a fruitless discussion because now you are calling my posts sinful and satanic. Perhaps I should refer this one to other moderators and even the administration. This isn't debate. It is character assassination. I feel sorry for you.
     
    #14 DHK, Feb 25, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2011
  15. BobinKy

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    Guys...

    I have heard arguments both ways on the KJV's use of the rendering "unicorn." Quite frankly, I can go either way--wild ox or unicorn. I think the video makes a nice presentation for the unicorn rendering. And I also think DHK has done a good job of presenting support for the wild ox rendering.

    However, not all arguments have been presented. For example, why did the KJV translators use the rendering "unicorn" instead of "wild ox"? They could have chosen the rendering "wild ox", but chose, instead to use "unicorn." Why?

    Please, avoid personal comments or name calling. They drive the rest of us away from an interesting topic.

    Thank you.

    ...Bob
     
  16. DHK

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    What is a unicorn? What do the scholars say?
    ISBE
    The consensus seems to be that it was some kind of wild ox.
     
  17. Robert Snow

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    This is just one of many places where the KJV is in error.
     
  18. AntennaFarmer

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    The current scholarly notion that a reem is a wild ox or buffalo is quite speculative. It is based on the idea that the wild ox fits the description of the animal and that it can't possibly be a rhino since they didn't exist in the area.

    "Unicorn" comes from the Septuagint which is a primary source of ancient Hebrew word meanings. Given the lack of other primary sources on the word the Septuagint usage should be accorded a high weight.

    The argument that the rhinoceros isn't indigenous to Palestine is a bit of a red herring. There was widespread trade throughout Asia and Africa during ancient times with Palestine as a bottleneck in the trade routes. The ancient Hebrews would have known of the rhino by reputation if nothing else. Besides - consider where Noah unloaded the ark.

    We should all be able to agree that the vid is quite correct on one point. The unicorn of the KJV isn't actually referring to the mythical unicorn. It is referring to a real creature.

    I think that creature in question is the real unicorn - the rhinoceros which comes in one and two horned versions.

    A.F.
     
  19. DHK

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    What do you mean by the "real unicorn"? The Septuagint is only a translation of the Hebrew, and not a very good one at that. It is the Hebrew that the OT was written in, and that is the word (reem) that must be studied. Rhinos are more of a red herring to this discussion as they:
    1. were not native to the land.
    2. are not a good translation of the word "reem."
    3. There are many other animals that have both one and two horns as exemplified in the above quotes.
    Also if you take a quick glance at some other translations, such as the ones that I provided earlier, none of them use either rhino or unicorn. They all translate it wild-ox, with the exception of one, which translates it as buffalo. The weight of evidence is against a translation of rhino.
     

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