I believe...

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Baptist Believer, Jul 3, 2002.

  1. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
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    Although I think this is partially directed to me... I'm kind of at a loss to known what you beliefs you consider to be orthodox, conservative and Baptist. I consider myself to be orthodox, conservative (at least as far as traditional Baptist beliefs go), and Baptist. Hmmm....

    Here it goes in no particular order. Shout when you hear something you don't like: [​IMG]

    I affirm the priesthood of the believer.

    I affirm soul competency.

    I affirm institutional separation of church and state.

    I affirm local church autonomy.

    I am opposed to creeds.

    I affirm confessions only as teaching tools and guides to Baptist life for those who are outside the faith.

    I affirm the complete trustworthiness of the Bible, but I wouldn't call myself an "inerrantist" -- I'm more like a practical inerrantist. I believe the meaning of the scripture has been completely preserved although there may be some scribal errors in our copies.

    I believe that Jesus was the only begotten of the Father and was incarnated as fully human/fully divine.

    I believe that the nature of God is Triune.

    I believe the Holy Spirit gives believers spiritual gifts and the gifts are active today, although many believers will not manifest certain gifts because of our cultural situation. There is no single gift that can be used as certain evidence that someone is filled with the Holy Spirit.

    I believe that homosexual acts are wrong, just like any other sexual sin. A person may be born with a genetic predisposition to sexual confusion (homosexuality) and they are not to be blamed for their feelings, but they are responsible to possess their bodies with honor, dignity and not indulge in sexual sin. (A heterosexual person can be celibate, why can't a person with homosexual tendencies also exercise self-control?)

    I believe that God calls women to minister to the church, whether they have a vocational position or not.

    I am very skeptical of the tradition of ordination that most Baptists have inherited from the Roman Catholic tradition. I believe the model for the New Testament is that people are ordained for a specific task, but it does not give them special rank or authority in the church. (I have personally avoided submitting to ordination. If a church really felt that I should be ordained, it would submit to it, but I think the way Baptists generally practice it is extra-biblical.)

    I draw no spiritual distinction between "clergy" and "laity". I think the New Testament model is that all believers are ministers to the Body of Christ. There are some who are called to vocational service to be sure, but they have no special authority over the congregation other than a moral authority gained by an honest and committed life.

    I do not believe "the doctrines of grace" or "5 point Calvinism" is the true expression of God's heart or God's work in the work.

    I do not believe that human beings earn their salvation. It is a work of God that humans receive when they put their faith in God.

    I believe Jesus is the only way to God (John 6:44) and has always been -- believers born before Christ were saved through faith in God's provision (Christ). In the same way, I also believe that everyone has an opportunity to respond to the light that they have, no matter if they hear a full gospel presentation or not. God save those who trust in Him with the faith of Abraham (see Romans and Galatians).

    I believe that God calls us to share the gospel with those closest to us, those who live in our area, and those on the other side of the world.

    I believe in the divine paternity of Jesus (yes, the virgin birth too, but that's not as important)

    I do not believe in original sin.

    I have some affinity for what is called Open Theism, although I am still studying it and not ready to enter a serious discussion yet.

    Okay, it's getting late... Anything yet?
     
  2. Dr. Bob

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    It is late. BUT NOT TOO LATE for you to repent!! :eek:

    Seriously, I would disagree with about 10 of your affirmations, and question mark a few others. WAY TOO MUCH to try to discuss. Maybe should start a thread or two on a couple of the most controversial.

    BTW, not sure I'd stick with the moniker "Baptist" believer. May need to add some other adjectives. (For instance, like I do, when I label myself a "historic fundamental baptist".

    We are definitely NOT the same "baptist", bro!
     
  3. rhoneycutt

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    I am a supporter of The cooperative Baptist Fellowship. Other than women in ministry I don't have any differences from orthodox, conservative Baptists.

    Now I do have a couple of issues with rabid fundamentalist Baptists. :D
     
  4. TomVols

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    If you only have a couple, you're far better off than I am :D
     
  5. TomVols

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    Can we "orthodox" Baptist post a plubmline of comparison, or is this just for the people who have been accused of not being orthodox to share their core beliefs? Just curious. I don't want to be where I'm not wanted :( :cool:

    [ July 03, 2002, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: TomVols ]
     
  6. Rev. Joshua

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    Tom,

    In all seriousness, how come y'all get to be the "orthodox" baptists?

    Joshua
     
  7. TomVols

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    Well, I put it in quotes. And I think Bapt Believer aluded to that earlier didn't he? Maybe it was someone else.
     
  8. Baptist Believer

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    Go for it. I just randomly starting listing my beliefs off the top of my head.
     
  9. Baptist Believer

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    Okay, you pick'em. (I'm not sure which ones are the most controversial.) I'll discuss anything listed except Open Theism. I'm still working through it and I'm not ready to discuss it yet.

    I don't feel like I should have to try to pidgeonhole myself... I don't easily fit into simple categories. People use categories and labels against others so they don't have to pay attention to what they say. I don't want to play that game.

    But I'm guessing we have the same Lord and Savior! :D
     
  10. Baptist Believer

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    It's interesting that many people were ready to criticize my theology, but no one seems willing to discuss it... :rolleyes:
     
  11. David Cooke Jr

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    OK, I'll start. I'm really attracted to your statement of belief because it reflects so much of what I believe. With regards to scripture, mine is more liberal but its more of this: The Bible does perfectly (or at least better than anything else on this earth) what it was intended to do: point us to salvation in Jesus Christ, and show us how to live.
     
  12. Helen

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    OK, point by point, here is where I stand on BB's post:

    I affirm the priesthood of the believer.

    Agree

    I affirm soul competency.

    I'm not sure what this means.

    I affirm institutional separation of church and state.

    Agree

    I affirm local church autonomy.

    Mixed feelings; I live in an area where I think all the aging hippies have come up and started their own churches and we have some REALLY strange things being taught up here and some in connection with mainline denominations! So I abstain here!

    I am opposed to creeds.

    I am not. As a child and teen especially, they helped me understand what the core beliefs actually were.

    I affirm confessions only as teaching tools and guides to Baptist life for those who are outside the faith.

    Why?

    I affirm the complete trustworthiness of the Bible, but I wouldn't call myself an "inerrantist" -- I'm more like a practical inerrantist. I believe the meaning of the scripture has been completely preserved although there may be some scribal errors in our copies.

    Actually, as I have studied more, I think we have more problems than that, but I am an inerrantist in the original signatures as well as affirming, in agreement, God's provision that the basic message has come through loud and clear.

    I believe that Jesus was the only begotten of the Father and was incarnated as fully human/fully divine.

    Agree

    I believe that the nature of God is Triune.

    Agree

    I believe the Holy Spirit gives believers spiritual gifts and the gifts are active today, although many believers will not manifest certain gifts because of our cultural situation. There is no single gift that can be used as certain evidence that someone is filled with the Holy Spirit.

    A little to my surprise, I found myself agreeing with this statement!

    I believe that homosexual acts are wrong, just like any other sexual sin. A person may be born with a genetic predisposition to sexual confusion (homosexuality) and they are not to be blamed for their feelings, but they are responsible to possess their bodies with honor, dignity and not indulge in sexual sin. (A heterosexual person can be celibate, why can't a person with homosexual tendencies also exercise self-control?)

    Absolutely agree. Excellent wording.

    I believe that God calls women to minister to the church, whether they have a vocational position or not.

    If 'minister' simply means serve, then yes. If it means having authority over men or the congregation as a whole, then my response is no.

    I am very skeptical of the tradition of ordination that most Baptists have inherited from the Roman Catholic tradition. I believe the model for the New Testament is that people are ordained for a specific task, but it does not give them special rank or authority in the church. (I have personally avoided submitting to ordination. If a church really felt that I should be ordained, it would submit to it, but I think the way Baptists generally practice it is extra-biblical.)

    Although I understand your feelings, I can certainly see the purpose for recognition of a person's learning and doctrine as being supported by those older in the faith as qualified to teach and lead.

    I draw no spiritual distinction between "clergy" and "laity". I think the New Testament model is that all believers are ministers to the Body of Christ. There are some who are called to vocational service to be sure, but they have no special authority over the congregation other than a moral authority gained by an honest and committed life.

    Again, I understand your position, but find myself preferring that, although I fully support the priesthood of each believer, there must be some recognition at least of the elders and the pastor as a fellow-elder else either anarchy or mob mentality could be the fallback position of the local church!

    I do not believe "the doctrines of grace" or "5 point Calvinism" is the true expression of God's heart or God's work in the work.

    I have to admit I am not sure what you mean by the 'doctrines of grace,' but I do oppose Reformed theology completely as standing in opposition to God's revealed character and call to people in the Bible.

    I do not believe that human beings earn their salvation. It is a work of God that humans receive when they put their faith in God.

    Half agree. First half absolutely yes. But 'putting their faith' in God is a sort of modern worldly idea. Faith seems to be a gift of God biblically. What an unsaved person CAN do is ask for it, however! The way I have been able to picture it to myself is that faith is like a bridge between belief and action. We can believe something is true but we cannot act on it without faith. We can believe God is true and the Bible is right, but our lives are not changed until God Himself kills the old nature and gives the new, giving the faith to act in accord with that new nature and the indwelling Holy Spirit as well.

    I believe Jesus is the only way to God (John 6:44) and has always been -- believers born before Christ were saved through faith in God's provision (Christ). In the same way, I also believe that everyone has an opportunity to respond to the light that they have, no matter if they hear a full gospel presentation or not. God save those who trust in Him with the faith of Abraham (see Romans and Galatians).

    Agree. God knows; God judges. Yes, Jesus is the only way to God, but long before the world knew the name and physical reality of Jesus, they had the Promise brought down from Adam and Eve in the garden! Belief in that Promise of redemption is just as much belief in Jesus Christ as belief is today, knowing the name and physical history. In fact, it is perhaps, 'more blessed' in the sense that Christ also told Thomas that although he was blessed, more blessed were those who did not see and yet believed. This can easily be applied to a pagan world where individuals respond to the ancient Promise that has never been lost in the cultures of man.

    I believe that God calls us to share the gospel with those closest to us, those who live in our area, and those on the other side of the world.

    Agree. In addition I would say that we are told to always have an answer, and if we don't live lives guided by the Holy Spirit, so that we are quite different from the world, then people will never ask the questions we are told to have the answers for!

    I believe in the divine paternity of Jesus (yes, the virgin birth too, but that's not as important)

    Agree with the proviso that I think they are both tremendously important.

    I do not believe in original sin.

    Absoltuely DISagree! See Genesis 8:21 for a start!
     
  13. TomVols

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    Sorry for not interacting with you. Health troubles and subsequent testing has limited my time on BB and will do so for a little while.
     
  14. Baptist Believer

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    I'm very sorry to hear that... I will keep your situation in prayer.
     
  15. Chaplain's Wife

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    Helen, from all appearances you and I are in agreement on all the points you stated except the last one. I believe in the sin nature being passed down from father to children, but not original sin the way the Catholics believe in it. If you define sin as disobedience to God, than an infant cannot sin. Do you see what I mean? The doctrine of orginal sin, leaves a difficulty with infants and age of accountability issues.
     
  16. pinoybaptist

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    I am a supporter of The cooperative Baptist Fellowship. Other than women in ministry I don't have any differences from orthodox, conservative Baptists.

    Now I do have a couple of issues with rabid fundamentalist Baptists. :D
    </font>[/QUOTE]Back in the 70's when I was with the Bible Baptist Church in Cebu City, Philippines, we had a choir director with the last name Honeycutt - a good (but strict) choir director, too.
    Any relation ?
     
  17. pinoybaptist

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    I am a supporter of The cooperative Baptist Fellowship. Other than women in ministry I don't have any differences from orthodox, conservative Baptists.

    Now I do have a couple of issues with rabid fundamentalist Baptists. :D
    </font>[/QUOTE]Back in the 70's when I was with the Bible Baptist Church in Cebu City, Philippines, we had a choir director with the last name Honeycutt - a good (but strict) choir director, too.
    Any relation ?
     
  18. pinoybaptist

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    I got a "flood control" FYI notice and waited the 30 seconds before refreshing my browser per instructions and now there are two posts on the same topic from me. Sorry for that, folks.
     

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