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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by HAMel, Apr 7, 2016.
Did Judas end up in paradise or eternal damnation?
I'm not in a position to know.
The tone of the gospel writers seems skeptical that Judas was redeemed, but as far as I know, there is no definitive word.
Even disciples of Jesus can betray their Lord by their actions from time-to-time. Judas may have though he was helping Jesus usher in the restoration of all things - and making a little silver on the side by leading the authorities to Jesus when Jesus was not protected by the crowds.
On the other hand, Judas did steal from the money bag that Jesus and his closest disciples used for their expenses. He seemed to have a problem with the love of money.
He was called the son of perdition. And showed remorse for betraying Christ. John 17:12 says Judas was lost.
So you interpret that as eternal destruction, not physical destruction?
Not sure if it says everything you seem to want it to say. However, I tend to agree. I just don't think that anyone can make a hard and fast case. I can quote Luke 10:20 and insist that Judas was in right relationship with God.
Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. - Psa 109:6
When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin. - Psa 109:7
I think it's clear. Judas is lost.
Luke 10:20 must be matched with Romans 9:6, "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel". All the Jews are among God's 'chosen people' but not all of them were or are saved. This helps to explain the phrase, "Many are called but few are chosen".
Judas was eternally lost. He is the only one other than the Antichrist himself who was ever called, 'the son of perdition' ...perdition being from the Greek-ἀπώλεια-meaning: destruction, loss, eternal ruin (Strong's).
Jesus himself said, "Have not I chosen you twelve and one of you is a devil"? John 6:70. Judas was at least part devil in the flesh. He probably had nephilim DNA.
Also, we know that Satan entered into Judas the night he betrayed our Lord and had him under total control during the hour and power of darkness.
Nephilim DNA indeedCautiousCautiousCautiousCautious
Free Grace Theology would place him in paradise/heaven because at some point he believed therefore no matter what he did after that heaven was his. They treat grace in this manner, note Romans 3:8.
However, it is apparent he was son of perdition and is in fact lost.
What is the context of the Psalm?
How does a Psalm, a poem, in the Old Testament apply to Judas in the New Testament? After all in Psalm 109 David is talking about wicked and deceitful men opening their mouths against him, David.
Whew. Good thing you weren't on hand to advise the Apostles.
All verses from both testaments have to do with mankind. Some want to saw the left side of the bible off and flush it.
Baptist Believer, since the quotation failed above I will quote your responses in underlined bold then offer a reply afterward:
'As someone who does not hold the "free grace" position (although it IS free), I also understand that there can be instances of unbelief and rebellion.'
OK, yet that is different than what I referred to and I also quoted Romans 3:8 which you apparently cut off reference to. There is a huge difference between instances of unbelief and rebellion and final unbelief and rebellion. I think that much was made clear in my statement, if not, it should be clear at this point. But I still think it interesting you cut off the Scriptural point that refutes and points out the FGT error.
If I had to bet on it, I would think that Judas faces destruction. But I think it is more humble and biblically honorable not to teach something that the scripture does not teach explicitly.
Judas will be judged by Jesus, not you and me.
First and foremost and for the record let me make it clear it is the Scriptures I refer to that do the judging and not myself. I just want to address the accusatory tone and dismiss it altogether as it is not correctly representing me.
You would think Judas faces destruction based upon what brother? You think Judas faces destruction. Surely not on a 'whim'. There has to be some biblical principle that leads you to this somewhere.
You say it is more humble and biblically honorable not to teach something that the Scripture does not teach explicitly. Does that mean that you saying you think Judas faces destruction is not humble or honorable and is not Scriptural on your part, or is this true only on the part of others when they say it?
The fact remains that the Word has already done this, and this is the only thing upon which we make any conclusion. He is son of perdition, and that says it all.
I respectfully disagree.
So when Judas is call the son of perdition the verse is speaking of all mankind?
When Jesus aid to Peter, "Get thee behind me Satan," he was speaking to all mankind?
When scripture says David was a man after God's own heart he, God, was speaking to all mankind?
Jesus is the advocate of Judas just as he is for us.
I John 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
*sigh* Gotta spoon feed the troll . . .
The Apostles applied Psalm 109 to Judas, Acts 1:20.
Your theology ain't.
I guess, by your response, you do not believe the verse I quoted. I also see you respond only with your opinion and nothing to back it up.
When John calls Jesus “our Advocate,” he means that our Savior stands before the Father to plead our case. Yet Jesus’ work as our Advocate goes far above and beyond the work of an earthly defense attorney, for His case for us is grounded in the work He has done to secure God’s favorable verdict (Rom. 8:1–4). For those who are in Christ, God is no longer the Judge who condemns us but the Father who adopts us into His family. We are guilty of sin and unable to meet the Lord’s demands, but the perfect righteousness of Jesus, imputed to us in our justification, sets us right with God. Matthew Henry writes: “The clients are guilty; their innocence and legal righteousness cannot be pleaded. It is the advocate’s own righteousness that he must plead for the criminals.”
This is written to believers. He is their Advocate. He is our Advocate. He was not the Advocate for Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Vlad Dracula, Saddam Hussein, et al.
Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers’ [Luke 13:25-27].