I Have A Bible Question About Tongues

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by RedemptionAddiction, Sep 25, 2006.

  1. RedemptionAddiction

    RedemptionAddiction
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    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Just wondering what you guys thought about this . . . [/FONT]

    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]5: I would (desire, wish) that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif](1Cor 14)[/FONT]

    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Does this verse show that God wants us all to speak with tongues and prophesy?[/FONT]
     
  2. Scarlett O.

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    No, I don't personally believe that God wants us all to speak with tongues and prophesy.

    When I read 1 Corinthians 14:1-8, this is how I understand it.

    • Paul is stressing that tongues is a private and intimate relationship between the individual and God that benefits the individual.

    • He also says that "prophesying" or proclaiming the truth to the whole body of believers benefits many people.

    • He, himself, wishes that everyone could experience the personal intimacy of tongues, but he knows that unless someone is interpreting what you are saying to the body, that its benefits aren't nearly as great as "prophesying" or clearly teaching and giving the truth to the rest of the body.

    • He gives the example of saying that if he came to them and spoke in a private prayer language that they aren't going to get anything out of it, but if he came clearly giving knowledge of God's Word that this type of insight is much more beneficial to the church.
    I don't believe that Paul is saying that God wants us all to speak in a private prayer language, but that Paul, himself, simply wishes that all could experience it, but recognizes that the edification of the entire body is more important.
     
  3. donnA

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    No.
    Obviously not, or we all would.
     
  4. music4Him

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    Yes. :thumbs:
     
  5. Jack Matthews

    Jack Matthews
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    The "I" in the verse isn't God. It is Paul.

    You've only quoted one verse, which is not able to stand alone without the rest of the passage. Look at the context of the whole thing, and you will get a better picture of what Paul is saying.
     
  6. DHK

    DHK
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    The "I would" in the verse is an intent of desire, not a statement of the will of God. It is liking saying "I would (desire) that you would have a million dollars, but rather that you be a missionary. It is not God's will for you to have a million dollars, but rather he desries you to give your life as a missionary. That is the sense of the passage but in different words.
    It is not God's will that you all speak in tongues although that would not be a bad desire. I would rather that you all prophecy because that is a useful gift. The secret to the passage is understanding and usefulness. What could the congregation understand? Tongues or prophecy. Tongues caused confusion and chaos. They couldn't even tell when to say "Amen" when someone prayed in tongues. Prophesying was always edifying, and therefore always useful. It was to be sought after, not tongues.
    DHK
     
  7. Brian30755

    Brian30755
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    I always think of prophesying as foretelling future events. What exactly is its meaning in verse 5?
     
  8. DHK

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    1 Corinthians 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

    1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

    These three gifts: prophecy, tongues, and revelatory knowledge, were given to the first century church as gifts of revelation until the Word of God was complete. Prophecy does not always mean foretelling. If you examine the ministry of an OT prophet you will see that much of his ministry is occupied in rebuke, edification, encouragement, comfort, reproof, etc. In fact very little of it is prophetic in the sense of foretelling. Paul repeats the word "edification" many times in the fourteenth chapter of 1Corinthians. Tongues did not edify but prophecy did; therefore prophecy was the more valuable gift. It was understandable. People could be taught and gain knowledge from it . Often the knowledge that they would receive was the NT knowledge that we already have today, and was not yet written down. For at that time they did not have all the NT books, only a very few of them. That was just one purpose of tongues.
    Another purpose of tongues was that it was a sign to the unbelieving Jews (1Cor.14:21,22). This became evident on the Day of Pentecost when thousands of Jews showed up for this Jewish feast, and the disciples spoke in tongues for their benefit. It was a sign to them. "How hear we every man in our own tongue (language)? Peter tells them that it was a fulfillment of prophecy.
    DHK
     
  9. RedemptionAddiction

    RedemptionAddiction
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    So, I'm seeing two main objections to my original post. The first is that

    "If God wants us to speak in tongues, then we will. If it's His Will, it will happen."

    So my next question is . . . If whatever God wants will happen, how does this belief work with 1Jn 5:14-15 that says in order to get what God wills for us, we have to ask, knowing that He hears us? If His will automatically happens, why does he say you have to ask in order to get it?

    Second was

    "This was Paul talking, not God"

    And my question to this is how does this belief fit with what Paul said in 2Tim 3:16 that all scripture is given by inspiration of God? If all scripture, that would include 1Cor 14:5, right? If not, does this belief say that Paul was not inspired by the Spirit to say this? If so, does this mean that the whole Bible is not necessarily God breathed?
     
  10. DHK

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    Tongues have ceased. It won't happen. The Lord does not work against what is written in His word.
    "And this is the confidence that we have in him that if we ask...according to his will..."
    You can pray for a million dollars but is it God's will for you to have a million dollars? God will answer your prayer, but no doubt the answer will be, "No." One needs to pray according to His Will. The first place to look for His will is in His Word. If we aren't obeying His will that is written in His Word first and foremost, what makes you think that he will lead you a step further. Take the first step before you can take the second step. Make sure that you are in the center of the will of God. Make sure you are on praying ground.
    Psalm 66:18 "If I regard iniquity in my heart the Lord will not hear me."

    All Scripture is inspired of God, and there is no reason not to believe otherwise. Tongues are not for today. Tongues have ceased (1Cor.13:8).

    What has all this got to do with inspiration. Inspiration means that everything that is written in the Bible, every word in every part of the Bible is inspired of God--that is it is just the way that God wanted it recorded. It is HIS Word and not man's. It has been accurately recorded by the Holy Spirit of God. What has that got to do with 1Cor.14:5--Nothing!

    There are many things that are not for today. Animal sacrifices are not for today. Sabbath keeping is not for today (though some here may disagree with me). Worshipping at the Temple is not for today. There are many things, including the gifts of the Spirit, that are not for today.
    DHK
     
  11. RedemptionAddiction

    RedemptionAddiction
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    DHK

    Where in the Bible does it say that tongues have passed away?
     
  12. DHK

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    There are a number of reasons given in the Bible where it says tongues have passed away. Any one of them will provoke a great deal of discussion. However if anyone of them if true they should be accepted as a good enough reason to believe that tongues have passed away.

    1. 1Cor.13:8-13 teaches that tongues have passed away.
    Verse 8 says tongues shall cease. The rest of the passage explains when. The answer is when the canon of Scripture is completed (that which is perfect or complete) then that which is in part (temporary gifts) shall pass away. We have the completed Word of God; the temporary gifts of tongues, prophecy and reveletory knowledge mentioned in verse 8 are no longer needed. They have all ceased, and did so by the end of the first century.

    2. Tongues, and other signs were used as a sign to authenticate both the apostles and the apostolic message during the first century.
    Scriptural proof;
    Hebrews 2:3-4 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
    4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will.
    --God bore witness to the Apostles with gifts of the Holy Spirit. Signs and miracles and the gifts were given to the Apostles to authenticate them and thier message that they were the true messengers of God.

    2 Corinthians 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
    --Paul states what the signs of an apostle were.
    The apostles and their close acquintances were all dead by the first century.

    3. Tongues, specifically was a sign to the unbelieving Jew.

    1 Corinthians 14:21-22 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
    22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
    --This is the most important and strongest argument in the Bible. It is the real purpose of tongues. It was the purpose of tongues on the Day of Pentecost, and so it was in the Corinthian Church, as it was in all the travels of Paul. There are only three instances of speaking in tongues in the Book of Acts. All three have Jews present. Tongues are a sign to the unbelieving Jew. These verses can't be any clearer.

    Verse 21 is a quote from Isaiah 28:11,12. It is a fulfillment of prophecy. The Jews hated the Gentiles. They would have nothing to do with them. To have God's message preached to them through Gentile lips would be anathema. It would be a sign to them that this would be from God. They had already rejected the Messiah. They rejected the message on the Day of Pentecost. If they continued to reject the gospel message with this accompanying sign then they would receive certain judgement. That judgement came in 70 A.D. when Titus came and destroyed the Temple, and the nation of Israel was scattered. No longer were they a nation. They would not become a nation again for 2,000 years, until 1948. Tongues were a sign to the unbelieving Jews of the first century. They did not take heed to that sign. When that happened the sign was taken away; there was no more need for the sign. Its purpose was fulfilled.

    4. The nature of tongues. Tongues means languages. Every time tongues is spoken it is in a real foreign language that someone can understand without interpretation. That is why it needs interpretation, for the rest that cannot understand. It had a defiinite purpose. Paul was given the gift, no doubt because of his many journeys into different lands. He would speak in their native tongue and perhaps it was translated back into Hebrew for the sake of the Jews that were present. He went to the Jews first and then to the Gentiles. Both language groups had to be addressed. Today there are no real tongues (languages) spoken. It is a bunch of "gibberish," or nonsense syllables run together.

    These are the reasons, given in the Bible, why tongues have ceased.
    DHK
     
  13. tamborine lady

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    Tongues

    :type:

    Redemptionaddiction,

    Here's a hint, some people will never believe that tongues are for today. Therefore scripture will be twisted into nonsense.

    Read the scriptures that are given to you without predjudice and see what God tells YOU they mean!

    Some, even a :tonofbricks: wouldn't wake them up so they could believe.

    Peace,

    Tam
     
    #13 tamborine lady, Sep 28, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2006

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