I have another question please

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Rusty61, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Rusty61

    Rusty61
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    Hi Peeps;

    First, if this sounds like blasphemy please forgive me and tell me what I'm say wrong. Ok?


    You know how some people say, I believe it because the Bible says it, Period? How does one get to that point? I'm afraid that there are some "promises" that just are not meant for me. So, how can I claim them and believe them just because it says so in the Bible? For example, I know or at least I assume, that Baptists do not speak in tongues. Well, all my years of being pentecostal I never did either. I never received that "proof" of the Holy Spirit. So, how do I know which promises are for me and which ones are not? Are they blanket promises or are they conditional or what?

    Again, I hope that's not blasphemy and I hope you understand what I'm asking. I'll try better if you need a better explaination. Ok? Thank you for any answers you might give me.

    God Bless;
    Rusty :jesus:
     
  2. saturneptune

    saturneptune
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    First of all, I would not worry about the word blasphemy or heresy on this board. It is thrown around to mean "you do not agree with what I think the Bible says."

    That is a very broad question, and the only answer that comes to mind is that the Holy Spirits in you illuminates your mind as you read the Word of God. Since the Spirit guides in all things, those questions should be answered within you.
     
  3. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
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    Brother, your question ain't even close to blasphemy. It's a perfectly fine question.


    Ha! I've said that. And I've heard others here and in "real life" say that. The trouble with saying that is that one had better make sure that one KNOWS what the bible really is saying or else one ends up looking or sounding foolish.

    Just because someone says, "I believe it because the bible says so, period!" doesn't always mean that they know what they are talking about.

    Of genuine understanding and genuine unshakable faith? It takes a LOT of reading and studying of God's Word and going through a crisis or two where you see for yourself that God is Truth and that you can't do anything own your own.

    Even then, even the best of Christians have their faith "shaken up" from time to time.

    All Christians are not afforded the same gifts or talents or life plans. Don't confuse those with promises. But all Christians are afforded the same opportunity for spiritual growth. Some may grow through adversity and some through the challenges of life. Some Christians may flourish better in joyous times and some may never grow at all, but the opportunities are still there. Those are the promises.

    The gift of tongues or prayer-language is not a promise. We are not promised anywhere in the bible that we shall all speak in tongues. The Apostle Paul said that he wished that other Christians could experience it, but he knew that it was a distracting thing. Nowhere is this supernatural gift expected by Christians or promised to Christians.

    Baptism in the Holy Spirit is not speaking in tongues.

    I have a book on bible promises. Let me read it (if I can find it) and tell you what it says about the "blanketness" of God's promises.
     
  4. Alex Quackenbush

    Alex Quackenbush
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    Your only hope is consistently receiving sound Bible teaching. Just being raised Pentecostal means you have been inculcated with bad elementary doctrine. And the result of having had bad elementary doctrine taught is that any attempt to build upon it results in failure. It may result in some "apparent" success here and there but the doctrinal edifice that results will be disjointed, inconsistent and minus the necessary doctrinal integrity to provide just what you seek, a strong, stable and confident edification within your soul resulting in maturity, spiritual poise and focus manifested in confidence toward God, His Word, and His protocol plan.

    Daily one can read, such as here or at any message board or any Christian social network, innumerable statements, beliefs, and ideas that manifest the misalignment and misunderstanding of the most basic doctrines in their attempt to handle more meaty issues.

    It is paramount in moving to maturity to make sure the fundamentals, the basic doctrines, are understood in the most thorough manner. And then intermediate doctrines are to be tackled and mastered in such a fashion, always building upon the foundational doctrines. Eventually advanced doctrinal issues can be navigated successfully and your certainty toward the integrity of the Scriptures will blossom in the way you are describing.
     
  5. skypair

    skypair
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    Hey Rusty :wavey:

    These others have given you some good advice. The first thing to know is what gifts are given us individually. That list (and the complete study of spiritual gifts) is given in 1Cor 12:7-11. (12:1-31 -- individual, body of Christ, and local church) Look in that list and see what the options are. Many of them have to do with learning the Bible (word of wisdom and word of knowledge). Tongues are on the list as well but, again, you will see that no 2 have the same gifts and, 1Cor13:1, we are to desire only one gift -- prophecy (meaning teaching or preaching).

    Do be careful of anybody telling you what gifts you should have. They are God's gifts to give and with tongues, there must be an intepretter else we aren't to use them.

    Also, like Scarlet said, many are going to tell you "The Bible says it so you better believe it." That's just a non-Berean speaking. The Bereans first went to check out everything Paul said in scripture and in prayer before they would accept it. There are all kinds of interpretations out there. It may be God speaking or it could be that "angel of light," SATAN!

    skypair
     
  6. SBCPreacher

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    Skypair,

    If it is in God's Word, then it isn't the "angel of light" telling us. I'd be the first to admit that I don't understand all of God's Word - I'm not even close, but my lack of understanding doesn't affect my belief that it is God's Word.

    So... If God's Word says it, I believe it!
     
  7. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
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    scripture

    Deuteronomy 8:3
    He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your fathers had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD.

    Matthew 4:4
    Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.' "
     
  8. Rusty61

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    Thank you everyone. I'm sorry I'm just coming online now but I've been sick. I appreciate all your answers. I feel better. I especially liked this one that I quoted. This is how/why I changed from a pentecostal church. I got into reading Charles Spurgeon. I bought all of his works. I read most of his sermons. I read the entire Treasury of David, I read books he wrote, etc. And after all that I knew I couldn't stay in the Pentecostal church. The first thing I realized is that they seem to be geared for new believers only. They only preach milk and I needed some meat. I searched for a church for a while. But what I wanted was what I found here at my church now. Which is to challenge me. To make me think. To make me come home and research what was being taught. I needed to hear bigger and better stuff than what I was getting. I hope that makes sense. So, while I have grown a lot from my pentecostal beliefs, I know I still have some and there are still some doctrine I have difficulty believing in. But as far as speaking in tongues, I only used that as an example because it was a requirement for me to join the church. I had no choice but to fake it if I wanted to join and I felt awful about that. But it never happened for me even after all those years. So, to me that's a wrong doctrine to tell me that God expects me to because it made me feel like God rejected me. Like I wasn't good enough or something. Anyway, I do read the Word every day and I do read commentaries and other learning books. But at the moment I'm reading the book that was recommended in a different thread by John Piper I can't remember the title. though.

    So thank you all for taking the time to answer me. And again, I'm sorry I took a few days off but I've been sick.

    Blessings;
    Rusty
     
  9. skypair

    skypair
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    You will find many who equate their own words with God's even reciting God's words in their defense. That is all I am warning about.

    skypair
     
  10. Rusty61

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    I think I know what you mean and I think it's the answer I was looking for. The Bible says that God will give us anything we ask for. Yet, we know that's not true. He's not Santa Claus. Like those name it and claim it preachers. They mislead thousands, I know I was one of them. And when it doesn't work for you you think either You're doing something wrong, God doesn't like you or the Word isn't infallible. It's not so much what the Bible says, but one must take into account the context and the situation in which the words are being written down.

    Sorry. That just seems to me to be kind of what you're point is. And that's what I wanted to know. It all makes sense to me now. Thanks everybody.
     
  11. skypair

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    Case in point: So many (my FiL for one) say they don't believe in God bc they had this crisis and prayed with tears to God and never got an answer.

    Well, most never get an answer because they are not listening where they to listen. God doesn't give His answers on your pillow at night. He gives answers in the midst of the crisis if, instead of being bitter or bull-headed, we examine our options. In the military, we called it OJT.

    Right there in the crises there are things we KNOW God doesn't want us to do -- like blow up at our boss or push our car over the cliff. In fact, what was it He told us about a humble, praying, contrite spirit? And other people are ministers to you if you just approach them the right way (like you are now).

    I remember once being so mad at God I was beating on my steering wheel because I couldn't think of how to get where I wanted to go. Did you know that blows out a whole lot of chostructive memory cells just to do that? And it's NOT solving the problem nor is it reaching God in the least! Clearly you would come away hating yourself and thinking God wasn't with you.

    skypair
     
  12. Rusty61

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    Ha, Ha, so that's what wrong with my brain! LOL, just kidding. Seriously you are absolutely correct. This is where I am now. I am on the road to recovery. Becuase I got to the point that I believed not only that I hated myself but that God hated me too. I have to relearn all that because of bad doctorine. And it's funny because I can only paraphrase it but I know it's in the Bible somewhere, that people would rather go to a preacher that "tickles their ear" than one who speaks the truth. I can say that with certainty because I was one of them. That's why I stayed pentecostal for so long. I believed for so long that God was going to open the windows of HIs store house and bless me with all kinds of things. How foolish of me. But now intellectually I know it's wrong, but that's why I have to ask you guys these questions, I need to get it inside my spirit. I need confirmation. I can't do this alone. And I've had years of garbage and I'm not going to get rid of it over night. God has blessed me with a Mentor. I never had one before. He helps me so much. He's a deacon and he took me under his wing, so to speak. I sit with him & his family. I go to his house. He calls and takes me with him when he has errands to do,etc. and we talk, we talk about all these doctrine things and believe me it helps so much. I think churches need to do that, to have mentors it's the best thing that ever happened for me. PTL!!! Once again thank you and I'm sorry I ramble. It's just the way I am. I guess I like to hear myself talk. LOL!!! :godisgood:
     
  13. saturneptune

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    Now there is a point we agree on. There seem to be many threads where people do not know the difference between God's Word and their opinion of God's Word. The lines get blurred, and is the source of most arguments.
     
  14. Scarlett O.

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    Thanks for this. You spoke to my heart, stepped on my toes, and made me really think very hard. :applause:

    I keep a journal on Microsoft Word of things that speak to me. I am cutting and pasting this to it.
     
  15. Rusty61

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    Hey Peeps;

    Some good news. I saw my Mentor today. He is leaving Friday for vacation. But I opened up to him today and when he gets back we're going to spend at least the next 10 weeks going over these fundimental things. He thought I was all set with them but when I started tellinig him my questions he thinks I need to go over the fundimental stuff with him. I am looking forward to this. So thank you so much for your advice and your prayers. This is really a blessing to me.

    -Rusty- :godisgood: :thumbs: :applause:
     
  16. skypair

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    Scarlett, saturn,

    Thanks guys. :thumbs: I'm an old man now and have had untold numbers of times to reflect upon my destructive tendencies.

    I guess the worst was being so bitter with God that instead of having a 27 year peaceful career with FedEx, I ended up with a turbulent stint at Eastern Air lines with only 16 years following at FedEx. I'm blessed -- I'm thankful now. And to Him be the glory, my prayer of 27 years ago was answered --- 11 years later.

    As I reflect on bitterness and self-pity, I now try to be forward-looking and enthusiastic about what some seeming hardship now might result in because every "fork in the road" has the capacity to success or failure for years to come.

    skypair
     
    #16 skypair, Nov 22, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2007

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