I need your help

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by vermae, Apr 8, 2006.

  1. vermae

    vermae
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    I have been saved for over 70 years and I love the Lord.In my church to attract the younger people they are doing some things I don't think are right.Such as hiphop and wareing tight jeans.What happened to bringing God yourbest?I was taught If no one praised the Lord He could make the rocks cry out.I think we are bringing the church down to the sinners level and not up to God's level.I don't want to leave .So I'm asking you how to handle this.Please don't give me any mean answers because I don't have much time as you can see I'm liveing on grace and what time I have left is a gifth.
     
  2. Joseph_Botwinick

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    1. Pray for a renewal of the Holy Spirit in your Church.
    2. Talk to the pastor one on one and share your concerns.
    3. If the response is not positive, you may want to consider finding another place to worship.

    I will pray for you that God will take care of this for you.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  3. jshurley04

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    If there are more in the church that feel like you, then approach the pastor about starting a second service for traditional worship. The ones that are offending you will generally not show up to a traditional service.

    If you are alone in your feelings then as hard as it may be, you may need to quietly leave and allow the church to follow the path they have chosen. By quietly, I mean speaking to the pastor and making sure that there are not any hard feelings. Also not speaking to others in the church as to why, simply refer them to the pastor.

    I have actually had to do this in a church when I could not support the direction being taken. The pastor an I are still good friends and God was able put me in a place to help build up another church. It was not easy and I told the pastor that any questions asked to me about why we left that I would send them to him so that gossip and backbiting could not get started by me.

    Good luck.
     
  4. vermae

    vermae
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    Both of you gave good answers.I will have to pray on it.They say they want a five star church and I should be opened to change.Change is good if it glorifies God.I could be set in my ways but it was good enough for my parents and they passed it on to me.If it's God's will I will change but I most be sure.
     
  5. Brother Bob

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    Change is something that has to be done very diligently. If you move too fast then you cause those like you (and me), to feel left out and not worshipping as we think we should. If you don't change at all you leave out the young and new members that want change. That is where a good Pastor leads the church, so as to try and reach all of the members. IMHO, you should never change to the point you leave the scriptures. I know a lot of people just like you, it is happening thoughout this nation and probably the world. I will pray for you.
     
  6. vermae

    vermae
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    Brother Bob,when my mother got up Sunday morning all of us went to church.We thought it old foggy then but we had to go anyway.We went and we are none the worse today.Now we have to play to the young people to get them into the church.Why come into the church if outside the church is the same?When I got up some size I left the church.Thank God I had roots to come back.The bible says"train up a child in the way it should go'The way we are going we are letting them dictate to us.Need your prayers. Thankyou
     
  7. Brother Bob

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    vermae; I grew up about the same, I see from your OP that you are up in years and I am not hardly as old as you but getting there. We too, were made to go to church as children and I at least, like you learned enough that when I really wanted to serve the Lord, I came back to my roots. In today's world the emphasis is placed on music, a new gymnasium, preaching that is more to the flesh than to the spirit but the Lord knows all about you, your time you gave to Him, your heart and soul, so endure to the end and He will be there also to take you in His arms and give you the rest you so patiently waited for. You sound like maybe you were raised in an "Old time Baptist Church" as I was. God Bless,
     
  8. vermae

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    Thankyou for your prayers.yes I'm a "Old Time" baptist.
     
  9. Phillip

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    We started attending our church because it consisted mainly of a conservative pastor and was a small mostly country church.

    Lately the pastor has started changing and no longer wears tie and is wearing a black shirt under his coat with a straight collar (goes straight up his neck about an inch or so almost like a catholic's collar, but without the white in front). The song leader has started wearing the same thing. I think they are starting to try to go after a younger crowd, but I feel uncomfortable with the changes that I am seeing.

    We were just discussing this last night with another church family who came over for supper and they were concerned that the changes would continue getting more liberal.

    It is sad, because I left a big church that was getting very liberal and even allowing teen dances with "christian" rock bands and dark lighting.

    I think we are all seeing a trend.
     
  10. jshurley04

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    So then not wearing a tie is Liberal!?!? HOLY NECK WEAR, BATMAN!!

    We have liberty in Christ to wear or not wear a neck tie or play 200 year old bar music or new style bar music. Be very careful with the use of words such as liberal. When one uses the word liberal it refers to one that has left the fundamentals of the faith. It does not refer to the methods they employ in reaching a lost world.

    There is not anything wrong with doing things in a way that you prefer. Neck ties, music or even the translation of scriptures are all preferences, and they are wonderful to have. Just remember that preferences are not fundamentals of scripture. In fact, if we were to equate preferences to the weight of scripture then the people that are African in heritage would never be given the gospel due to the preference in belief that they are not worth giving the gospel to. Some preferred to believe that they do not even have a soul. A preference did and still could keep some out of heaven if it were given scriptural weight.
     
  11. Gina B

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    I'm trying to think how I can share this and get my point across without sounding snobby.

    Let's see...

    For a while I was VERY uncomfortable with anything "new". I almost quit a church once when they let a woman in the choir up there with a dress that left her with practically bare arms.
    I wouldn't walk into a church that had drums, or played music that had them.
    Neither would I have considered a place where the women wore pants to church.
    Or if they used anything other than the KJV.

    It did a number of things for me.

    It stopped me from fellowshipping with almost everyone else in my community. They just didn't have high enough standards in my opinion, and our church didn't work with other churches because they were too "liberal". (meaning they listened to modern music, or used modern bible versions, etc.)

    It also helped me to spend a good amount of time worrying about appearances. I had three kids and a house to keep up, then I had to make sure that I and my kids looked just right. Do you know how difficult it is to find appropriate dresses for girls, let alone ones that will work in freezing temperatures? It's hard enough to find ones that go below the knee, let alone ones that are warm enough, then to afford all the trappings that go with it.

    I've found that my life has changed when I quit giving God my best on Sundays. I go for our best every day, and I don't think God is impressed at all with what I wear, as long as it's clean. I would feel more guilt in getting all "gussied up" on a Sunday than I would on a Tuesday. I find it difficult to own something very nice and not feel some guilt if I go to church and someone else doesn't own something that nice. Maybe instead of trying to impress God with a certain cut of cloth on my body, I should have given the extra money to the church to help out others, or given it directly to others.

    That's how I feel about dressing up now.

    And about music styles...music changes. It's hard to sing a new song to the Lord if all you stick to is the old. When I stopped worrying about whether drums came from evil Africans and realized God made Africans and gave us no opinion on whether a piano is preferable to a drum set, I started looking at some of the lyrics to the more modern songs. Some of those are really good! Just as there are hymns that are deep and some that are somewhat frivolous, such are the lyrics to modern songs.

    Now that I'm not focusing on what I'm wearing, what everyone else is wearing, what instruments are being used to praise God, I find I have a closer relationship with Christ, within my heart and not just in my mind, because I'm not focused so much on appearances anymore, or methods, or how the choir is arranged, or what everyone else is wearing.
    I've noticed with poor clothing choices, like tight jeans and such, the person will change how they dress as they mature in Christ. Our job isn't to change their clothes, it's to change their hearts, and when their hearts change they'll change their own clothes.

    It's made me a lot less judgmental of other people when I quit having the expectation that everyone should look like this or sing this way or talk like that, and that allowed for spiritual growth.

    The message should stay the same, and the evidence of that message should stay the same. I don't think the evidence includes music styles or neck ties or collars. I'm sorry, I just don't, and there's no biblical evidence of it, and it isn't even a common sense thing that one could say "it's normal for a man to wear a neck tie to church". I think if Jesus had to wear one, he'd probably not have been very thrilled, they seem most uncomfortable. :eek: ;)

    And preaching...sure, it's interesting and feels great to have someone up there pounding the pulpit and preaching it, but I've learned a lot more from our pastor who sits there and teaches, quietly, and answers questions during.
    The first style leads to immediate feelings of guilt and makes me say "wow, great sermon!", and you feel inspired by the energy for a short time and also most likely includes a dose of guilt, but then it's gone.
    The second style has me thirsting for more, and provides me with ways to apply my faith on a daily basis, because it often focuses on real life situations and how to handle them according to the Bible.

    I don't think God means for us to go to church every week to realize our guilt. We go to learn how to live and to gain encouragement in doing so. If we're saved, we already realized our guilt. If we have the Holy Spirit, guilt grabs us when we do wrong. It doesn't have to be evoked by a preacher intentionally. Why the focus on attempting to make saved people feel guilty? We know when we do wrong. Teaching us to live right will make our wrong glaringly obvious to ourselves, and we will change.

    This long winded post was all to say I understand, and I know I don't have your experience, far from it, but now I've shared what has been my experience in both styles...the old fashioned and the modern, and what I've said is why I don't have a problem with the modern methods.
     
  12. Brother Bob

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    vermae and Phillip;
    I understand both of you and I am still praying that God will be with you. Those that want the change don't understand those that don't and visa versa, that is why change must be a slow movement so as not to lose either side. I wonder how far is too far, I am sure everyone has a stopping point or at least I hope so.

    (His emphasis was not the wearing of a tie but the wearing a uniform type of clothing so as to look like the Catholic or someone like them, instead of being themselves. I am sure he don't care whether they wear a tie or not.) When you pretend to be someone who you are not just to appeal to the crowd is hypocritical.

    [ April 09, 2006, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]
     
  13. vermae

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    Brother Bob I'm glad I met you.Change we must but all changes are not good.It is some of the changes we made years ago that got us into the mess we are in today.Someone in autority should know where to draw the line.The only thing that really keeps me going is the bible don't change.I keep my old KingJames version handy to make sure what I hear in church and other places is right.
     
  14. Frenchy

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    I to a point, agree with both sides Gina's and Brother Bobs. you know me, balance is the key [​IMG] the problem arises when we COMPROMISE in order to "draw" people in. no where in scripture does it say to compromise God's standards and God's word.

    I know i said this before, it is not the churches sole JOB to win souls or the pastors sole JOB, but it each individuals job to wins souls through his personally relationships.

    The church is there for those who are ALREADY saved for equiping, teaching, edifying, fellowship, worship, all so we can go out into the world and reach others for christ! Eph 4:11-12, Matt 6:24.

    The pastors primary job isn't to win souls either, through his persoanl relationships like us yes. but the pastors job is to SHEPHERD his SHEEP. to feed his sheep, to teach his sheep, to help his sheep when they are hurting, to quide his sheep, all this in order for the SHEEP to be healthy and reproduce more sheep then bringing them into the fold. Matt 28:19-20

    If a church decides to LOWER it's Godly standards and become like the world in order to win the world they are wrong and they have loss their focus on God and his power. they are more worried about numbers, money or status within the community. JMHO

    When the world looks at christians they should be able to see a differnce, in dress (not to the extreme of dresses only and mens suits all the time, but modesty) in music, (that edifys God and others) in manner of talk, in how we spend our money and time, in how we show love and grace to others etc.
     
  15. vermae

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    Frency You voiced my opinions to the TEE.I'm so glad I'm not out there alone.The power of prayer seems to be our only answer.God sent people to fix up the mess in the corintian churches.Before things get too much out of hand I'm sure He will step in.Our job is to hold fast and pray and if He calls on us to do something we must act in faith.
     
  16. Brother Bob

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    WoW!!;
    Frenchy and I finally have an agreement, its been a good day!
     
  17. blackbird

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    The day's not over yet, Brother Bob!!!
     
  18. Brother Bob

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  19. Frenchy

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    After saying all that i realized i didn't give a solution.

    All i can say and what i have learned is do what you can, like others have said and go to those in authority about your concerns. the more that go with you that agree the better. try and back up your case with scripture (need help we can help you with that) if the leaders agree you have won them over, if do not you are required by God to submit to their authority. if you cannot submit you need to find a church you can submit too. prayers are with you [​IMG]
     
  20. Aaron

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    vermae,

    Unless you can take a lot of abuse, my advice is to quietly leave and find a church that adheres to sound doctrine and spiritual modes of worship. Those who are pushing the new worship will do so no matter whose conscience they will have to trample on to do so.

    There's a book you need to read before you address this issue. It's called Confessions of a Former Worship Leader: Why I Left the Contemporary Christian Music Movement by Dan Lucarini.

    [CLICK HERE]

    The link will take you to a review.

    I'm with you all the way. [​IMG]
     

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