I Stand Amazed

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by dh1948, May 23, 2005.

  1. dh1948

    dh1948
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    Yes, at times I do stand amazed at what I read in Christian, particularly Baptist, publications. Over 20 years ago I attended a bus conference in Ruskin, Florida. It was an event hosted by Walley Beebe. Since then I have received a monthly (now bi-monthly) publication called, "The Church Bus News." I have never subscribed to it or sent money to the publisher. It has followed me wherever I have moved, and I have never notified the publisher of an address change.

    Today I received the May/June issue. As usual I took about two minutes to scan through it before discarding it. My attention was captured by an editorial written by Dr. Jeffery J. Fugate, Editor-in-Chief. He assumed the job as editor after the death of Bebee. He pastors a large independent Baptist church in Kentucky and heads up a church-related Bible school, or "college."

    His editorial was titled, "Preaching or Entertaining." I was amazed as I read it. It is unbelievable the extent to which some pastors will stoop to condemn methods and ideas that do not fit into their little box.

    In referring to what he calls, "religious entertainment," Fugate says, "We see it everywhere. Rather than 'a church' it is a 'praise and worship center.' Rather than a preaching service, it is a worship service."

    He cites Ezekiel 6:11 as a proof text for a particular preaching style...apparently the only biblical preaching style. He calls it, "old-fashioned, rip-snorting, shingle-pulling, window-rattling, sin-naming, devil-hating, Christ-honoring preaching."

    It is not surprising that he condemns the use of visual aids, such as PPT, in preaching.

    To top off all his nonsense (my opinion, obviously) he says, "When folks stopped bringing their Bibles to church; when they stopped using a hymnbook to sing out of; when they stopped dressing up for church with a shirt and tie and a nice dress; we stopped the saying of 'amen' with clapping hands like other entertainment."

    I find such rantings to be absurd. Just wondering if I am by myself on this. Your opinion?
     
  2. USN2Pulpit

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    Yes, I'll agree with you. While we still must try and maintain "good order," that does not mean that our worship is confined to procedures outlined in a bulletin. When we become slave to procedure and tradition (otherwise known as "baptist liturgy"), we lose sight of the object of our worship - God Himself - and instead turn toward our own man-made devices.

    I heard someone once say, "I doubt most American Christians have any idea how to worship the way Psalms shows us to." He may be right.
     
  3. PastorSBC1303

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    There is a lot of that type of stuff out there. It is amazing that Ez 6:11 could be used as a proof text for any type of preaching and just shows how grossly they distort the text to have it mean what they want. My preaching professor in seminary called that the spring board method. You take what you already want to say, then use a text to spring board off of into what you want to say. It is sad and completely not Biblical.
     
  4. All about Grace

    All about Grace
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    The only one of these adjectives that does not belong in this type of preaching is the last one.
     
  5. Kidz-4-HIM

    Kidz-4-HIM
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    I say Praise God for men of God like Dr. Fugate.
    Our fundamental churches would not be in the shape they are in if we had more preachers who would preach! Calling sin, sin and right, right.
     
  6. USN2Pulpit

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    You may have a point there, K4H, but there's more than one way to present that message. It varies from death and destruction (as in the case of Jonah's message) to the bold proclamtion in the courthouse (as in the case of Paul's message in Athens) to the use of illustrations to present a message (as Jesus did so many times through His parables).

    These "methods" were blessed by God - not because of the methods themselves - but because God's messenger was obedient to proclaim it.
     
  7. wtrsju

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    Sin being clapping? or singing? or "non-traditional worship the way a Baptist defines it? C'mon my friend, this nonsense is killing our faith. It's not like Jesus was singing out of a hymnal on a Sunday morning then running to the buffet (this sentence is just an attempt at humor, no offense meant). Let some fresh light shine in and not constently call progress sin, just because it's different.
     
  8. gb93433

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    I remember when I was a kid we would get up on a box and imitate those guys and make fun of them. We were not even Christians.

    The man (along with a student I knew) who led me to Christ knocked on my door one day. The shout stomp and spit was something we made fun of but when the student knocked on my door and told me the gospel I responded.

    I cannot remember one thing the shout stomp and spit preachers said. But I do remember their performances. Sometimes I watched them on TV when I was a kid to see them perform never hearing a word they said.

    Mt. 7:28,29, "When Jesus had finished these words, the crowds were amazed at His teaching; for He was teaching them as one having authority, and not as their scribes.

    The following verses shows how Jesus saw the world.

    Mt. 9:35,36, "Jesus was going through all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness. Seeing the people, He felt compassion for them, because they were distressed and dispirited like sheep without a shepherd."

    Talking about the ills of the world is not preaching. It is simply an opinionated speech. It does nothing fore the believer or non-believer except to make them afraid of the people they know who are non-believers.

    About two years ago I witnessed to a fellow worker who had been out of high school a few years. He told me about how the fundamentalists would all hang together and treat people like him as poison as though he and his friends would contaminate them. That young man knew what church they went to but did not ever hear the gospel from them. How sad that those Christians had such little faith and almost no boldness to talk with the other students. They were more worried about their own preservation than giving others eternal life.

    Their god is not sufficient and they must protect themselves. But my God says in His word "the righteous are bold as a lion."
     
  9. John Ellwood Taylor

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    He said,"old-fashioned, rip-snorting, shingle-pulling, window-rattling, sin-naming, devil-hating...preaching."

    This is the entertainment, not faithful proclaiming of the Word.
    To stand and rant, sweat, and yell is just as entertaining and equally unedifying as the style he seems to condemn.

    To think something preached is better because it's louder and angrier is foolish. I wonder if their sermon transcripts are PUBLISHED IN ALL CAPS...

    Gentelmen, preach the Word. Where it convicts it convicts, where it comforts let it comfort. But above all be sincere, 'painted fire never burns.'
     
  10. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    This is the same guy and publication that recommends buying the attendance of kids with things like prizes, hamburgers, ice cream, etc. Talk about entertainment and wrong reasons to attend church.

    I get the Bus News for some reason. Fortunately, since Fugate took over they have gotten away from teh KJVOnly nonsense, but unfortunately, they have continued to fill it with the same man-centered tripe.
     
  11. USN2Pulpit

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    Well said, J.E.T. Just preach the Word obediently and in sincerity. God doesn't need our man-made theatrics. His Word is powerful enough all by itself.
     
  12. Mickey

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    My mother recently joined a new church after not being in church quite some time (praise the Lord). I though it would be a nice suprise if my family and I went to her church on mothers day.

    I have to say that it was unlike any other service I have ever been to. But not in a bad way. Most of the memebers are pretty young. they used a teleprompter during the service, acted out a skit before the service, the preacher is really laid back, but full of the spirit. It was a real relaxing, cozy atmostphere. No "hollering and screaming", just a quiet Godly man preaching the word with his own style and in his own way. I remember walking out and telling my wife, "Man, that was pretty cool". Then we spoke about message on the way home. See, the meaasge got out. Thats the point, it's not HOW it's given, it's whether we receive it or not that matters.
     
  13. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    I'll still NEVER be able to get used to people CLAPPING after somebody sings a solo or a choir special.I see no problem with clapping as a congratulatory response to anniversaries,birthday announcements or that sort of thing but beyond that,clapping is something I was always taught and raised to do as a response to a PERFORMANCE of some sort or ENTERTAIMENT in general.I just can't bring myself to accept or believe that it is an appropriate response or "praise technique" to good Godly singing or Bible preaching.I'll always believe that a hearty,well-placed AMEN! or PRAISE THE LORD is far more appropriate to this kind of worship.As to "balance",I don't think even THAT should be allowed to get "out-of-hand" though.Beyond that either hysterical shouting OR clapping is a manifestation of the flesh.I've been some places where you couldn't even HEAR the singing OR the preaching for all the hollering!JMO

    Greg Sr.
     
  14. dh1948

    dh1948
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    Regarding "getting out of hand".....I am reminded of something I heard a preacher say one time (can't remember who): "I had whole lots rather try to cool down a fanatic than warm up a corpse!"

    I don't intend this to be a slam against the previous poster. Just an amusing thought.
     
  15. USN2Pulpit

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    That is funny!
     
  16. bobbyd

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    Personally i prefer "worship arena" over "praise and worship center" =)

    I do agree with you though, it does get old seeing methods being ripped apart by preachers because it doesn't fit into their God shaped box.

    If Christ is lifted up, people will be drawn to Him. And if the Word is proclaimed, God will now allow it to come back void. That seems like it covers it all there to me; worship the Lord and proclaim His Word...can't we just leave it at that and not nitpick about what we think is right or not?

    As for me, i will continue to preach messages that are both relevant and Biblical, and will use PPT on a weekly basis to help get the message across. I will even consider using a drama should the Lord lead me in that direction.
     
  17. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr.
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    Dh....It's probably also TRUE...no offense taken brother.

    Greg Sr.
     
  18. TexasSky

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    This is the same guy and publication that recommends buying the attendance of kids with things like prizes, hamburgers, ice cream, etc.

    I am not sure I understand this statement. I think getting kids attention so that you can deliver the word of the Lord is important.

    We used to have a "Saturday Carnival for Christ," at one church I attended. It was before the VCRs were invented. (How's that for old?) We did the whole kids fair business. Popcorn, balloons, ice cream, and even some cartoons, but we included a serious talk about Christ in there, and we showed them that Christians are not the Saturday Night Live "Church Lady".

    A lot of the kids that started out at that little carnival came to know Christ, and two of them are youth ministers today.
     
  19. Bro.Rick

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    Lets take out the air-conditioning from the churches too. People are way to comfortable during the service.

    BTW. Doesnt worship mean "to silently sit in a pew with arms crossed, may be accompanied by a frown or scowl"
     
  20. terriloo

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    I grew up in Baptist churches where all the preachers did that "yellin', spittin', can't-catch-my-breath-coz-I'm-in-a-sing-song
    -roller-coaster-preaching-mode". I went to church every time the doors were open (because I WANTED to), but it SURELY was NOT for the preaching. I not only don't RECALL what any of the preachers said...I'm not sure I ever even UNDERSTOOD a word they said--because it always just hurt my ears. I was SAVED, not from hearing a thundering, fire-and-brimstone sermon, but by the gentle teaching and witnessing of my Sunday School teachers. They both taught and SHOWED me Jesus Christ. The preachers' words NEVER did.

    The first time I ever went to a church service where the preacher TALKED instead of yelled, I was so mesmerized and thrilled that I wanted to do some shouting. I understood. I learned. I was given a message that went straight to my heart--it was a message of God, Grace, and staying away from sin--but it was delivered in a manner that actually did some good--because I could hear it and understand it. Since I've got hearing problems now, I REALLY don't want to go back to a church where all the preacher does is yell, stomp, and spit -- because with THAT kind of preaching, the message is totally lost on me.

    This "new-fangled" preaching style--where a preacher TALKS instead of YELLS--is FAR from something to condemn...in fact, I imagine it's EXACTLY how Jesus spoke to the multitudes. One does NOT have to yell if one has words worth hearing. [​IMG]
     

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