I think the church as a whole has forgotten

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by mactx, May 13, 2013.

  1. mactx

    mactx
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    I read about all these differing ideas on what sin is. I read how some say all you need to do is "invite Jesus into your heart" and you are saved by grace.
    There are a lot of little things though that seem to get left out.
    For instance, there are many who claim to be Christians while yet blatantly denying what the Bible says.
    There are verses that specifically teach against what some religions have in their rule books.

    Jesus warned of this when he said there is a narrow gate to salvation, and few there be that find it. (Mat. 7)
    If a religion agrees with the world, it is in danger of becoming a false religion.
    God set up 1 religion, Judaism, when that failed to win men to him he sent his Son and set up a new FAITH. That does what the first could not do, it changes the heart.
    When a heart is changed it's life will change too, if it does not, the change is not real.
    Webster says Faith and religion are the same, Webster is wrong. God says true religion is the care of widows and orphans in their time of need. (James 1)
    God says Faith is the conviction of things not seen. (Heb. 11)

    These are things that need to be studied and addressed by all Christians, no matter what steeple they worship under.

    We need to recall the church from the love affair she is beginning with the world. Instead of bigger churches we need to be creating smaller ones that deal with the neighborhoods. We need to be certain OUR people, the church do not need to go to the government for assistance in time of trouble. The church should NEVER have to go to the world for help, she should help her own.

    A church in every neighborhood preaching yes the love of Christ but also teaching God's version of sin and the punishment for those who refuse to turn away from it.

    I have no idea why this was put on my mind as soon as I woke up this morning but there it is.
     
  2. Thinkingstuff

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    Note there are many who say that God in his Mercy Already saves you (a few he chose before creation) by quickening you with his spirit and thus are already saved therefore the "sinners prayer" is just a result of one already being saved and not a mode of salvation itself. Therefore its not really necissary to "confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord" - Romans 10:9 to be saved. Though it may be a statement one makes at some point as a result of God's choice before his first spoken words creating the universe.
     
    #2 Thinkingstuff, May 13, 2013
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  3. mactx

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    satan believes is he saved? his demons recognize the power of Christ. Are they saved?
    If you truly believe in him and make him Lord of your life then this is true.
    We are told that by their fruit we will know the saved from the not saved.
    Jesus also declared that not all who call him will be saved.
    There is more to it than just saying Lord Lord.

    If you have true Faith, it will shine out and others will see that You are different than those around that are of the world. You will be come a lamp to the lost.

    Romans 10 continues a thought from Romans 9, which is discussing why Judaism did not work. It is a warning not to mimic what happened under Judaism.
     
    #3 mactx, May 13, 2013
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  4. Thinkingstuff

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    I actually am not in disagreement with you at this point. I'm just saying there are many who believe that all is needed is to be elected and anything apart from election is considered a works based faith.
     
  5. Yeshua1

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    Satan and the demons all know jesus is Lord, they all just refuse to call Him their lord!
     
  6. BobRyan

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    In 1John 3:4 - John said "sin is transgression of the Law"

    In 1John 5:2 John says the saints keep the Commandments of God - and they are not a burden.

    In Rev 14:12 John says the saints keep the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

    In Romans 6 Paul asks "What! Shall we sin because we are under Grace and not under Law? God forbid!"

    In Rom 3:31 Paul says "Do we then nullify the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law".

    In 1Cor 7:19 Paul says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God".


    The Baptist Confession of Faith - 1689 , declares the TEN Commandments to be the MORAL LAW of God given to mankind in Eden and still applicable to the saints today - written on the heart and mind under the New Covenant.

    In Matt 10 - Christ said
    37 “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
    38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

    39 He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.


    1 John 2


    3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.

    4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

    5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
    6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.


    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #6 BobRyan, May 13, 2013
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  7. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    There surely is the simple absolutely distinctive difference between >>a works based faith<< and 'faith based works'. The former is of man; the latter is of God. The former is free will, self justification and own righteousness; the latter is Election, Forgiveness and Grace.

     
  8. saturneptune

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    From the book of Acts, when Peter preached the first sermon, there was one church. The same Spirit lives in each Christian, and there should still be one church. Jesus knew better as He promised to preserve His church. Today, we have hundreds of denominations that call themselves Christian, and maybe thousands of subgroups. (ie Primitive Baptist, free will etc) in each denomination.

    One of the great mysteries is why. Some of the differences are trivial, and some are not trivial. It is also obvious there are true believers in each group which together is the Kingdom of God, or the universal church as some call it. It has no function on this earth.

    Over the last 2000 years, we divided and subdivided. One thing is for certain. If one believes the words of the Lord, then one believes His church was preserved now and forever. Any thinking person of Scripture can clearly see the RCC is not the preserving agent, anything but. So that begs the question, what preserved the church before the Reformation. Obviously it is local autonomous churches alongside the RCC. Despite over 1000 years of persecution of these small churches by the RCC, the true church was preserved. About the only thing the RCC ever accomplished from inception to present day is collecting a lot of documents written by themselves, spreading a false Gospel, and hindering the work of the Lord. It needs to be emphasized again that there are saved Catholics despite the RCC.

    While some of the many divisions were trivial, the one with the RCC is not. A Gospel of works is not trivial. Anything that alters the person of Jesus Christ or the nature of the Gospel needs to be divided. Several groups have chosen to join the RCC in a Gospel of works, although the mode is different. That would include the Church of Christ, SDA, Pentecostal and other such organizations. Groups like the JWs and Mormons go beyond that by denying the divinity of Christ, which, is worse than a Gospel of works.

    Those two differences alone narrow the field to Baptists and mainline Protestant churches for preserving the NT church. Yes, there are differences between Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutherans and Episcipalians, but the Gospel is by faith in Jesus Christ and Christ is fully God and Divine.

    If I did not believe the modern day Baptist church most closely mirrors a true NT church, I would not be one. Even with the mainline Protestants, we are distinctive in baptism, and autonomy of the local church.
     
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

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    You mean like those who walk the steps of the seven sacriments .... you call that salvation? Please!
     
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Exactly:thumbsup:
     
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

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    :thumbsup::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  12. Thinkingstuff

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    What's wrong with walking "in the steps of the seven sacraments"? I was baptized, confirmed, receive communion, I will never get holy orders, Marriage, anointing of the sick, and I confess and repent of my sin. These aren't "works based faith" but as faith which produces these activities. Are you not also baptized? Do you also not receive communion? Do you not confess your sins? Do you not anoint or pray over those who are sick? Do you believe that God doesn't see you when you are baptized? Do you believe that God doesn't commune with you when you receive communion? Do you believe that God doesn't hear your prayers as you pray for the sick? Do you believe that God doesn't forgive your confessed sin? If not then you believe that God is involved in these activities in some sense and where God is there is Grace. And Grace helps us in our walk of faith to live rightly. So I ask again what wrong with walking in the sacraments?
     
  13. Thomas Helwys

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    Except the mainline Protestants in their support of abortion and sodomy have become apostate.
     
  14. Thomas Helwys

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    The difference comes, though, in whether one believes that sacraments are necessary to salvation or not.
     
  15. BobRyan

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    if the claim is "no magic powers" of the priest in those sacraments then you have something.

    But in the RCC model the priest "retains" the magic powers to confect God in the communion and to mark the soul in baptism - even if the priest is condemned by the Church as being in gross error and is excommunicated. That is a "magic powers" model that goes far beyond anything in the Bible - and the "reason" for the powers is that the priest becomes the sole source of "Christ in you the hope of glory" and also "wherever two or three are gathered there I am in your midst" - can only happen in the context of the magic powers of the priest according to the RCC.

    As stated before - in John 16 and John 14 Christ said He was going to give another - on earth - as Himself -- and that is God the Holy Spirit according to Christ.

    God alone has the power to change the soul.
    God alone chooses when He will be with us and under what conditions.
    God alone causes the miracle of the New Birth and "Christ in you the hope of Glory".

    No magic by a specific denomination can do that.

    But IF it could then you have a devotion to those magic sacraments that is a form of worship unknown in the Bible.

    1Peter 3 "according that BAPTISM now SAVES you - not the touch of magic water on the flesh - but the APPEAL to God for a clean conscience" -- something an infant can't do - and something that does not require holy water or magic water or sacramental water.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  16. Thinkingstuff

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    Well, we do hold to baptismal regeneration. However, we are not so rigid as to believe that if you are predisposed to baptism due to having recieved faith then even without baptism one can not be saved. No one who has faith and would under normal circumstance sought baptism would be saved. I see it this way what is necissary for salvation in your meaning because salvation is inclusive of many subjects but if your meaning is "getting to heaven", then the requirement is to believe in Jesus Christ and remain in him. The Sacraments are in play to help us to remain in him and to grow in his likeness. Imagine if you will a Christian who did not pray or read the scriptures or even went to church. What would happen to his/her spiritual life? Backsliding comes to mind. And if Backsliding is maintained then the person will fall into apostatsy. But taking up Christian activities opens us up to the direction and leading of the Spirit and we are therefore more likely to remain in faith in him. So it is with the Sacraments. They are efficacious when acted upon in faith.
    Without first faith what are the sacraments? Nothing really. Therefore the sacraments do not "conjure up" salvation based on an activity devoid of faith. But with faith already expressed in the heart of those who believe they are effecacious. Like reading scripture. One may read scripture and it does nothing to affect a man's salvation. However, for one who has faith the scriptures are the words that direct a man to salvation. Would you therefore say since a man may read scripture and not be "saved" reading scripture is a worthless activity devoid of God's influence? No you wouldn't. On the other hand would you say the act of reading scripture does not lead to salvation? It certainly can. Doesn't God by the Holy Spirit make the reading of scripture effecacious to salvation for those who believe what is taught? So it is with the sacraments. This in part also answers Bobryans thought that the sacraments act like Magic. They do not.
     
  17. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    I am surprised that you and I do not see EVERYTHING the same, because we are in very close agreement on these the most fundamental divisive principles between churches all claiming for themselves the only Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    I think a third principle is at play which explains why we are not agreeing 100%. A church or denomination or movement or whatever it calls itself THINKS - it has the mentality - that it can "think ABOVE WHAT IS WRITTEN".

    Now is there a SINGLE church under the sun that does not assume and presume that right and authority for itself? I must still encounter it.

    Oh yes, it includes me. I am daily confronted by the challenge to test myself and my doctrine by the Bible, page one to the last and the spirit of its Law in between pervading it—if that Law "is Christ the Substance". Most clearly it includes me first and foremost.

    Let men judge what they will, in the end God is the only Judge, and thank God, I may rely on his forgiveness of my sins as of my weaknesses and constant failings, the fact God's Truth is God's Truth and Last Winner. Let me die with the assurance filling up my heart to over-flowing, that the Lord and Saviour of all His own, Jesus Christ, is the Water of Life and Life-Source of the River of Life that flows FROM HIS THRONE and from no earthly fountain what broken vessel.









     
  18. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing ..." Complete!

    After you have finished to fill in, answer the question,
    Is Paul still correct or are you a legalist fanatic?

    If your answer is not 'Yes', you failed your test!

    Go back swot up your prescribed Books, all 66 of them and apply for the test over again!

    PS
    The price to enroll rises by the day. In the last day it’s going to cost you your life; so hurry up!
     
    #18 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 15, 2013
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  19. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Return Test ...

    Gotcha! You didn't expect the same questions, did you? You did?! Just too bad ... here's your final exam ...

    The Community of the saints coming together for to eat the Lord's Supper, Feasting Christ the Substance and Nourishment ministered by bands and joints of love, hope, faith is nothing ... Right or wrong?

    Jesus Christ and his Father worked hitherto on the Sabbath is nothing ... Right or wrong?

    Jesus Christ gave them, the People of God, Rest, therefore a Sabbath-Day's-Rest remains for them is nothing ... Right or wrong?

    You can go home now, and mark your paper yourself.

    The deciding marks for pass or not will depend on the attached assignment for you, to compile from the Scriptures a list of similar opposing questions.

    Good luck! See ya all!

     
  20. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Smile....alright ..... then just take a look & listen.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjtKZO8Nu3Y
     

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